Given the choice between keeping my pay or having it redistributed to the idle class against my will I’ll take my pay.
I agree, but you’re looking down instead of up. If you look at the top tenth of the one percenters, it looks like this… And, do you consider labor unions Socialist?
[QUOTE=Oil_Is_Evil;177790]Given the choice between a Mega Capitalist and a Mild Socialist… Do you consider collective bargaining to be Socialist?[/QUOTE]
Collective bargaining does have socialist roots but I consider part of the needed checks and balances. I served on committee for 4 contracts. With the talented crews I sailed with, we proved our worth and negotiated good contracts. The delegates for the next contracts have their work cut out for 'em with the personnel surplus in this cycle.
Absolutely, the balance between Socialist collective bargaining and Capitalist supply and demand. Here’s a story about a local left wing radical you may have heard of…
https://depts.washington.edu/pcls/documents/research/Cherny_HarryBridgesLabor.pdf
[QUOTE=c.captain;177783]indeed sir which leads me to ask now who can argue with this?..(except some illiterate toothless coonass who can’t even recognize the NE because he has never set foot out of his swamp of a state?)
RUBBAH![/QUOTE]
Those are awefully queer brows(gangways) between tugboats. If those were my tugs I’d be embarassed to have that broadcast all over the media. I think they’re made of marxist aluminum.
It’s really odd time that in all my years of sailing the only socialists I’ve ever come across is on gCaptain. I’ve never sat in the galley and had the kind of mind blowing shit get spouted that’s seen on here. This site used to reflect what I saw in the fleet and now like every other forum I know of the crazies that don’t have anything to do but get online and bitch about needing more work and wanting other peoples money have moved in and started squatting while the rest of us were at work. Then we come home and they’re all yelling about how it’s their right to live in our house and that they represent the majority. This country as a whole has lost its fucking mind.
[QUOTE=lm1883;177812]The ships are beautiful! But…the Norwegians at Wilhelmsen are on their last trips as we speak, many ships that traditionally had Dutch officers are are staffed by cheaper EU officers, and Swedish officers are not currently being offered positions on new builds and additions to their companies.
FWIW many of our MSP ships (container ships and RORO) come from European parent companies (Maersk, WWL,etc…) that are collecting your tax dollars enabling them operate the fine vessels you admire.[/QUOTE]
Very true a good friend who works in Baltimore (WWL hub) told me the same. Seems the new regime at Wallennius has decided they need to be more capitalist than socialist.
It is a shame too with the MSP ships. How many remain that are truly US bottom? More often than not Maersk or NOL takes one of their “older” box boats and flags it US just in time to get US govt dollars to repair and keep their overseas coffers full
[QUOTE=lm1883;177812]The ships are beautiful! But…the Norwegians at Wilhelmsen are on their last trips as we speak, many ships that traditionally had Dutch officers are are staffed by cheaper EU officers, and Swedish officers are not currently being offered positions on new builds and additions to their companies.
FWIW many of our MSP ships (container ships and RORO) come from European parent companies (Maersk, WWL,etc…) that are collecting your tax dollars enabling them operate the fine vessels you admire.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, our tax dollars, that is socialism, is that not my point?
APL carries uncle sam cargo with tax dollars.
All ships no matter the flag which carry govt cargo are socialist.
just to clarify a few things
socialist business: government owned means of production/transportation/sales/service such as the US Post Office, naval shipyards, military sealift command, most ferry systems, city buses, public airports and seaports, air traffic control centers, public hospitals, public universities and schools, almost all firefighting, most highway repair, etc…
social welfare: government provided services to the population (including business) such as medicare/medicaid, social security, public education, foodstamps, pure subsidies to business (MSP, et all)
not too many hate hate socialist business but seems everybody loathes social welfare programs unless they are recipients
just saying y’all need to get it straight here
jeez, you don’t get out much, do you? What’s the matter, anti-Social (ist)?
it’s a pretty rare day when a swampman leaves his ooze…they like their stys to be insulated from the outside world hence all the tripwires and ammo stockpiles
What’s the matter, anti-Social(ist)?
naw, it’s just the result of a very shitty edumacation
[QUOTE=Oil_Is_Evil;177844]jeez, you don’t get out much, do you? What’s the matter, anti-Social (ist)?[/QUOTE]
Hard to read forum threads all day while steering the boat, managing paperwork, navigating, while you’re offshore in winter weather. But really thats an excuse. I show up everyone and a while to she what kind of crazy shit y’all have come up with for my own entertainment since I left and the best you could do was a thread on work pants and an ad for some crazy old man that wants to take the lowest common denominator in our society and give them more cash. Just buy more stock in Nike, Spreewells, skyjacker truck parts and you should be able to retire after a couple of years of Bernie. Everything else will go to hell but your car will look cool…
Terribly sorry to disappoint you with the entertainment value of this site. (Carhart, by the way). The dichotomy in the current presidential election is noteworthy, as shown in my previous post %0.1 percent of Americans make about %40 of the money. You would rather get robbed by capitalist pigs than help those less fortunate. In the words of Karl Marx, “Workers of the world, unite!” If you’re “Steering” the boat, that means that you are a worker, more or less. I’m very happy with the coolness of my car… It’s not perfect, but at least I give less of my money to Texans and Terrorists…
[QUOTE=Oil_Is_Evil;177853] You would rather get robbed by capitalist pigs than help those less fortunate. In the words of Karl Marx, “Workers of the world, unite!” [/QUOTE]
How about a list of all those countries where Marx’s experiment worked out really well for all those involved? I’d love to see one…
[QUOTE=farmerfalconer;177868]How about a list of all those countries where Marx’s experiment worked out really well for all those involved? I’d love to see one…[/QUOTE]
oh, I don’t know about that. Scandinavian nations are doing well enough and you don’t see a flood of their populations all trying to flee the hideous redistribution of wealth.
some people don’t mind paying a much higher tax rate that in the USA knowing that their governments provide an excellent safety net of services. Of course, those nations don’t have Administrations and a Congress that is so rife with corruption awarding massive giveaways to too big to fail defense corporations pumping up their obscene profits selling extremely overpriced military equipment which the people don’t need for massive bloated militaries to fight enemies which don’t exist. 3/4 of weapons procurement is not needed and we would still have a very robust military. If there was some way to codify that the DoD cannot replace anything it currently has unless that asset is physically no longer able to be used. No more selling off perfectly good trucks with only 1000miles on them for a couple of thousand to replace them with a brand new one that costs $250k. They are doing this today. I bid on these trucks and see what good condition they are in. Perfectly able to be used for decades more to come but that would effect the profits of Stewart and Stevenson or Oshkosh. and NO MORE buying ghastly overprices aluminum ships which breakdown all the time and cannot survive a fight!
Take away a trillion dollar defense budget and the USA would have the best social benefits on the planet plus a balanced budget too all with lower tax rates that any Scandinavian nation. It is the extreme unnecessary military spending in the USA which is leading it to its economic downfall!
[QUOTE=farmerfalconer;177868]How about a list of all those countries where Marx’s experiment worked out really well for all those involved? I’d love to see one…[/QUOTE]
Not my area of expertise but I believe that the modern welfare state has it’s roots inOtto Von Bismark’s Germany, not Marxism.
[QUOTE=farmerfalconer;177868]How about a list of all those countries where Marx’s experiment worked out really well for all those involved? I’d love to see one…[/QUOTE]
Marx did not live to see the fruit of his “experiment”. In fact he didn’t even see the beginning of Marxism being practiced anywhere.
His ideas are still alive, but not being fully implemented anywhere. (It never have)
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[QUOTE=c.captain;177869]oh, I don’t know about that. Scandinavian nations are doing well enough and you don’t see a flood of their populations all trying to flee the hideous redistribution of wealth.
some people don’t mind paying a much higher tax rate that in the USA knowing that their governments provide an excellent safety net of services. Of course, those nations don’t have Administrations and a Congress that is so rife with corruption awarding massive giveaways to too big to fail defense corporations pumping up their obscene profits selling extremely overpriced military equipment which the people don’t need for massive bloated militaries to fight enemies which don’t exist. 3/4 of weapons procurement is not needed and we would still have a very robust military. If there was some way to codify that the DoD cannot replace anything it currently has unless that asset is physically no longer able to be used. No more selling off perfectly good trucks with only 1000miles on them for a couple of thousand to replace them with a brand new one that costs $250k. They are doing this today. I bid on these trucks and see what good condition they are in. Perfectly able to be used for decades more to come but that would effect the profits of Stewart and Stevenson or Oshkosh. and NO MORE buying ghastly overprices aluminum ships which breakdown all the time and cannot survive a fight!
Take away a trillion dollar defense budget and the USA would have the best social benefits on the planet plus a balanced budget too all with lower tax rates that any Scandinavian nation. It is the extreme unnecessary military spending in the USA which is leading it to its economic downfall![/QUOTE]
Agree, you don’t fight ideological terrorists with jet fighters, aircraft carriers or thousand dollar spanners.
As long as everybody know that nuclear weapons are MAD they are not a real treat, or a real deterrent to terrorism.
[QUOTE=ombugge;177872]Agree, you don’t fight ideological terrorists with jet fighters, aircraft carriers of thousand dollar spanners.
As long as everybody know that nuclear weapons are MAD they are not a real treat, or a real deterrent to terrorism.[/QUOTE]
almost six decades ago, President Eisenhower saw what was happening and warned the Nation which failed to listen. His words were so very prescient, profound and clear. He saw a government bending endlessly to acquiring more and still more weapons in a hellbent need to always have the most of the best regardless of the cost. Sixty years later nothing has changed even as the Nation has gone from the biggest creditor in the world to the world to its greatest debtor. Take away the endless need for weapons systems over that six decades and we would today still be debt free and economically a global powerhouse but as a massive borrower, we are now beholden to to the likes of Saudi Arabia and China who underneath their veneer are NOT our allies or friends. BLAME THE US ADMINISTRATIONS AND THE CONGRESS FOR BEING BEHOLDEN TO LOCKHEED MARTIN, BOEING and GENERAL DYNAMICS! THOSE WHO SIT IN POSITIONS OF POWER IN THE USA ARE OUR REAL ENEMY!
Every American citizen should be made read this in their lives over and over again every time they vote!
My fellow Americans:
Three days from now, after half a century in the service of our country, I shall lay down the responsibilities of office as, in traditional and solemn ceremony, the authority of the Presidency is vested in my successor.
This evening I come to you with a message of leave-taking and farewell, and to share a few final thoughts with you, my countrymen.
Like every other citizen, I wish the new President, and all who will labor with him, Godspeed. I pray that the coming years will be blessed with peace and prosperity for all.
Our people expect their President and the Congress to find essential agreement on issues of great moment, the wise resolution of which will better shape the future of the Nation.
My own relations with the Congress, which began on a remote and tenuous basis when, long ago, a member of the Senate appointed me to West Point, have since ranged to the intimate during the war and immediate post-war period, and, finally, to the mutually interdependent during these past eight years.
In this final relationship, the Congress and the Administration have, on most vital issues, cooperated well, to serve the national good rather than mere partisanship, and so have assured that the business of the Nation should go forward. So, my official relationship with the Congress ends in a feeling, on my part, of gratitude that we have been able to do so much together.
II.
We now stand ten years past the midpoint of a century that has witnessed four major wars among great nations. Three of these involved our own country. Despite these holocausts America is today the strongest, the most influential and most productive nation in the world. Understandably proud of this pre-eminence, we yet realize that America’s leadership and prestige depend, not merely upon our unmatched material progress, riches and military strength, but on how we use our power in the interests of world peace and human betterment.
III.
Throughout America’s adventure in free government, our basic purposes have been to keep the peace; to foster progress in human achievement, and to enhance liberty, dignity and integrity among people and among nations. To strive for less would be unworthy of a free and religious people. Any failure traceable to arrogance, or our lack of comprehension or readiness to sacrifice would inflict upon us grievous hurt both at home and abroad.
Progress toward these noble goals is persistently threatened by the conflict now engulfing the world. It commands our whole attention, absorbs our very beings. We face a hostile ideology – global in scope, atheistic in character, ruthless in purpose, and insidious in method. Unhappily the danger is poses promises to be of indefinite duration. To meet it successfully, there is called for, not so much the emotional and transitory sacrifices of crisis, but rather those which enable us to carry forward steadily, surely, and without complaint the burdens of a prolonged and complex struggle – with liberty the stake. Only thus shall we remain, despite every provocation, on our charted course toward permanent peace and human betterment.
Crises there will continue to be. In meeting them, whether foreign or domestic, great or small, there is a recurring temptation to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties. A huge increase in newer elements of our defense; development of unrealistic programs to cure every ill in agriculture; a dramatic expansion in basic and applied research – these and many other possibilities, each possibly promising in itself, may be suggested as the only way to the road we wish to travel.
But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs – balance between the private and the public economy, balance between cost and hoped for advantage – balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable; balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual; balance between actions of the moment and the national welfare of the future. Good judgment seeks balance and progress; lack of it eventually finds imbalance and frustration.
The record of many decades stands as proof that our people and their government have, in the main, understood these truths and have responded to them well, in the face of stress and threat. But threats, new in kind or degree, constantly arise. I mention two only.
IV.
A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.
Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present
and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.
It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system – ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.
V.
Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society’s future, we – you and I, and our government – must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.
VI.
Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.
Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.
Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment. As one who has witnessed the horror and the lingering sadness of war – as one who knows that another war could utterly destroy this civilization which has been so slowly and painfully built over thousands of years – I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is in sight.
Happily, I can say that war has been avoided. Steady progress toward our ultimate goal has been made. But, so much remains to be done. As a private citizen, I shall never cease to do what little I can to help the world advance along that road.
VII.
So – in this my last good night to you as your President – I thank you for the many opportunities you have given me for public service in war and peace. I trust that in that service you find some things worthy; as for the rest of it, I know you will find ways to improve performance in the future.
You and I – my fellow citizens – need to be strong in our faith that all nations, under God, will reach the goal of peace with justice. May we be ever unswerving in devotion to principle, confident but humble with power, diligent in pursuit of the Nation’s great goals.
To all the peoples of the world, I once more give expression to America’s prayerful and continuing aspiration:
We pray that peoples of all faiths, all races, all nations, may have their great human needs satisfied; that those now denied opportunity shall come to enjoy it to the full; that all who yearn for freedom may experience its spiritual blessings; that those who have freedom will understand, also, its heavy responsibilities; that all who are insensitive to the needs of others will learn charity; that the scourges of poverty, disease and ignorance will be made to disappear from the earth, and that, in the goodness of time, all peoples will come to live together in a peace guaranteed by the binding force of mutual respect and love.
So true, but even more wasteful, worrisome, and corrosive to a free society is the rise of our present day:
“Homeland Security Industrial Complex.”
[QUOTE=tugsailor;177875]So true, but even more wasteful, worrisome, and corrosive to a free society is the rise of our present day:
“Homeland Security Industrial Complex.”[/QUOTE]
still, this chart shows a very sobering picture of where Congress loves to pour the money and for what? Certainly not to fight ISIS or Al Quaeda with ballistic missile subs, aircraft carrier battle groups or F35 fighters!
OUR MILITARY IS TOO BIG AND MUCH TOO EXPENSIVE CONSIDERING THE THREATS THE NATION CURRENTLY FACES!
.