You can’t be serous?
“Meets the legal definition” the same way my DP log dose not ask for desk hours! So onboard (on DP or not) a DP 2 class vessel meets Legal definition.
High risk DP- are you telling me that pumping Fuel on DP with a hose is not a high risk. That setting a subsea tree with a heave-comp tower connected to the well head is not high risk. That performing a Plug and abandonment is not high risk. That well stimulation with hoses pumping at 11,000 psi is not high risk.
I am not telling you that you job is easy or not high risk. But Drilling guys are always looking down upon Boat personnel as if our jobs were easy (remember having the option to go in manual control also gives you a great responsibility to hold the boat in position until that fuel hose is disconnected). To tell you the truth Boat personnel are a more well rounded mariner. We transit, perform DP ops, maneuver is close quarters, load cargo, transit narrow channels with heavy traffic.
I rather be a Jack of all trades than a master of one!!!
Yes I am!!
[QUOTE=PR-9;53286]are you telling me that pumping Fuel on DP with a hose is not a high risk.[/QUOTE]
Everything has risks, but most of what you mentioned for years has been done without the benefit of DP. Meaning that manual is an option. Maybe not the heave comp tower, but we had something called a HCLS before that and set subsea trees, tubing head spools, etc…with NO DP setting from the stern of a boat. That is not considered high risk DP, but does not take away from the risk of the job in general.
Drilling guys only look down on some “boat people”, and you are making it pretty clear that you are one of them.
Hahaha!!! Thank you!!
I see how you avoided the “meets legal definition”. I guess that’s only when it’s convenient.
If you are on a vessel while on DP, you are considered underway (this goes for everyone), and meets the legal definition.
[/QUOTE]
Meet legal definition? See paragraph © line 12 in the first page. CFR 46 11.211
[QUOTE=PR-9;53292]If you are on a vessel while on DP, you are considered underway (this goes for everyone), and meets the legal definition.
Meet legal definition? See paragraph © line 12 in the first page. CFR 46 11.211
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2009/octqtr/pdf/46cfr11.211.pdf[/QUOTE]
Wow…all that trouble. Figured you knew the rules of the road and what underway was. After all, you said something to the fact of MODUs having Restricted lights…I don’t think anchored or moored vessels will have those, even my AB thought that to be obvious, but I will humor you for a minute before I go to sleep…
“legal” being a loose word because CFR’s are not law (since you loved my quote so much)…which does not have the guidance you’re trying to prove yourself smart with anyway. There is nothing in the CFR that says anything about how DP MODUs are handled. You should look in the Marine Safety Manual Volume III, Chapter 21 for specificity of MODUs with DP. It can be found on the Homeport and <acronym title=“United States Coast Guard”>USCG</acronym> website. Happy Homework…genius.
The best part is I have never worked on a rig in my life…
I’m gonna steer clear of this one sounds way too heated for a pacifist like myself.
[QUOTE=anchorman;53296]Wow…all that trouble. Figured you knew the rules of the road and what underway was. After all, you said something to the fact of MODUs having Restricted lights…I don’t think anchored or moored vessels will have those, even my AB thought that to be obvious, but I will humor you for a minute before I go to sleep…
“legal” being a loose word because CFR’s are not law (since you loved my quote so much)…which does not have the guidance you’re trying to prove yourself smart with anyway. There is nothing in the CFR that says anything about how DP MODUs are handled. You should look in the Marine Safety Manual Volume III, Chapter 21 for specificity of MODUs with DP. It can be found on the Homeport and <acronym title=“United States Coast Guard”>USCG</acronym> website. Happy Homework…genius.
The best part is I have never worked on a rig in my life…[/QUOTE]
Since you brought up the legal effect of the CFR… The Marine Safety Manual is subordinate to the CFR. The portions of the MSM that provide that DP MODUS are “conventional” vessels is in direct conflict with the regualtion cited by CR-9, 46 CFR 11.211©
[QUOTE=anchorman;53296]Wow…all that trouble. Figured you knew the rules of the road and what underway was. After all, you said something to the fact of MODUs having Restricted lights…I don’t think anchored or moored vessels will have those, even my AB thought that to be obvious, but I will humor you for a minute before I go to sleep…
“legal” being a loose word because CFR’s are not law (since you loved my quote so much)…which does not have the guidance you’re trying to prove yourself smart with anyway. There is nothing in the CFR that says anything about how DP MODUs are handled. You should look in the Marine Safety Manual Volume III, Chapter 21 for specificity of MODUs with DP. It can be found on the Homeport and <acronym title=“United States Coast Guard”>USCG</acronym> website. Happy Homework…genius.
The best part is I have never worked on a rig in my life…[/QUOTE]
Well let me enlighten your ignorance, Not all DP MODUs are anchored!! and if the vessel is not anchored and it is on DP then it is Underway and making way!! yes I do know the Rules of the road. Also when I use the term RAM lights I was talking to a Guy that works in a Drill Ship (on DP Underway making way).
The CFRs are Law!!! they are a codification of the general and permanent rules and regulations- Also know as Administrative Law!!!
I feel bad for your AB cause you most be teaching him all kind of wrong things.
Have a Good one! safe sailing!!
[QUOTE=chemcarrier;53297]I’m gonna steer clear of this one sounds way too heated for a pacifist like myself.[/QUOTE]
Thank You man!!! I am really not trying to hate on anyone!! But I guess this one got a little deep!!
[QUOTE=PR-9;53303]The CFRs are Law!!! they are a codification of the general and permanent rules and regulations- Also know as Administrative Law!!!
[/QUOTE]
No the CFR’s are not law, they are Federal Regulations enacted by the Adminstration through the Federal Register process of proposal then public comment, etc… Federal law (or statute) is embodied in the United States Code which are put into effect by an Act of Congress. Often a new CFR will stem from a new or revised USC.
Look up Title 46 US Code some day if you really care about any of this.
[B]What’s the difference between the [I]U.S. Code[/I] and the [I]Code of Federal Regulations[/I] ([I]CFR[/I])? [/B]
As you’ve discovered, a few words are used in several different publications. However, with respect to legal issues, “code” refers to a set of currently valid law or regulations arranged by subject. The U.S. Code contains laws - what you’re supposed to do - and the [I]CFR[/I] contains regulations - how you’re supposed to do it.
Every regulation in the [I]CFR[/I] has to have an “enabling statute” or “statutory authority”. Despite the way it might seem sometimes, agencies cannot just create regulations because they feel like it - there must be a law in force that requires the regulation. That law is the enabling statute. Only after an enabling statute has been created can a regulation be developed.
Therefore, the [I]U.S. Code[/I] and the [I]CFR[/I] represent different kinds of law and different stages in the legislative process, with the [I]U.S. Code[/I] preceeding the [I]CFR[/I].
Can we say MULTI TASK?..[QUOTE=anchorman;53173]You didn’t do yourself any justice with that post. Updating charts and pubs is not considered navigation watch duties. If you hit something or something hits you…and you happen to say I was correcting charts…you might as well throw your license off the bridge wing.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=jdcavo;53302]Since you brought up the legal effect of the CFR… The Marine Safety Manual is subordinate to the CFR. The portions of the MSM that provide that DP MODUS are “conventional” vessels is in direct conflict with the regualtion cited by CR-9, 46 CFR 11.211©[/QUOTE]
Yes, we had that conversation before, but that was not this conversation. That was cited by [B]PR-9[/B] to establish if a MODU was underway while in DP. 46 CFR 11.211© has to do with creditable service. That is not the same thing. A conventional vessel is not considered underway at that dock (just on DP according to [B]PR-9[/B]) just because of how creditable service is defined in the CFR.
I do care! I always thought the CFRs were law. I guess I need to do better research. Thank you!
Hey all arguments aside! I heard that the Island Enforcer lost a contract because Chouest replaced the foreign crew with Americans and the customer said that made all the crew SSE. Is this true? I hope not!
[QUOTE=anchorman;53318]…That was cited by [B]PR-9[/B] to establish if a MODU was underway while in DP. 46 CFR 11.211© has to do with creditable service. [/QUOTE]
I was intentionally avoiding that question. The “law” is not yet settled on that. It will probably take some court decisions (also “law”) to establish that with certitude.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;53349]I was intentionally avoiding that question. The “law” is not yet settled on that. It will probably take some court decisions (also “law”) to establish that with certitude.[/QUOTE]
Underway is funny as far as it’s not defined on what it is, only what it is not. You cannot be at anchor, made fast, or aground. The term “vessel” was too broad so specificity was added (when defining underway) for MODU’s in46 § 10.107 that says “When referring to a mobile offshore drilling unit (MODU), underway means that the MODU is not in an on-location or laid-up status and includes that period of time when the MODU is deploying or recovering its mooring system”
That provision, in it’s specificity, went far enough to define that provision as MODU’s with mooring systems. That covers almost all MODU’s, but not those with DP. DP has not been defined as a mooring system, and has only been specified in the MSM.
It’s pretty clear to me, but what do I know? I think like a seaman, not a lawyer. No offense to you Jim, I know you are a seaman as well. The litmus test of killing propulsion then seeing what happens afterwards is absolute. If you drift off, you’re underway. If you don’t, you’re at anchor, made fast, or aground.
Look at that we actually agreed on something!! Good post!!