[QUOTE=c.captain;170414]again, you are requested to retract your aspersions against Davidson
freefall boats are sometimes fitted port and starboard on ships with forward houses. they could have been carried aft of the superstructure so the crew would have been able to get into the low side one without having to go far aft[/QUOTE]
Use private messages to talk with me c.captain regarding the master Davidson, thank you. I will not discuss him on the open forum out of respect.
Yea walking on weather decks in a storm while needing to abandon ship is NOT the answer.
[QUOTE=QuabbinHiker;170412]It’s absurd that in 2015 El Faro was sailing with open lifeboats. Simply absurd. Why were encapsulated lifeboats not added during the 2009 refit? TOTE being cheap, using bullcrap grandfathering rules, taking the risk at the expense of the crews? Yes.[/QUOTE]
Are you aware of SOLAS requirements?
[QUOTE=cmakin;170445]Are you aware of SOLAS requirements?[/QUOTE]
I of course do not know the full details of SOLAS as I am not in the industry, but I have an overall sense of what it is about. I focus on it from the sailing aspect. I happen to think that every single ship should be equipped with the latest safety equipment - no matter when the ship was built.
I strongly feel all large ships it should be mandatory for these to be equipped.
Totally Enclosed Life Boat, and Freefall Lifeboats.
For my sailboat, I always go overkill on the safety. I carry a SURVITEC OceanMaster SOLAS-A pack. It’s SOLAS, USCG, and NATO AQAP 1 approved. It cost me nearly $10,000. I have hosted up to 12 people on my sailboat, and have piloted it to Bermuda several times. I am planning a cross Atlantic tip for 2017.
For such a small boat, everyone laughs at me for such overkill on my liferaft. But when disaster happens, I won’t be laughing while I am in the raft waiting for the USCG to help me. I entire safety list is a true laugh to most people, it’s very overkill. So is my electronics package and triple redundant power backup. I have customized the heck out of my baby. I love her very much. 
I am a VERY conservative skipper, and everything I do is based in safety when I am on the salt.
There are still a number of vessels that use open lifeboats. I’ve worked on ships in the past that had them. Are they ideal? No. Can they meet and exceed current SOLAS requirements? Certainly.
The word “grandfathered” is being thrown around a lot lately due to the age of the vessel and the subject matter. In reality there is no such thing with regards to lifesaving systems. Rules are adopted. Notice of compliance is given. Inspections are made to ensure compliance. A valid certificate proves compliance.
It’s easy to look at a forty-five year old ship and shake your head at a the open boats when you know that there is better equipment out there, but in practice ALL lifeboats are extremely dangerous. I have taught lifeboatmen, sea survival, and a number of other classes pertinent to the topic and this may surprise new readers: Lifeboats have probably killed as many people as they have saved.
Side-launched lifeboats have many, many problems and most can’t be “engineered” away. Free-fall lifeboats have an entirely different set of risks but their operation, for the crew member who is adequately trained, is easier.
With reference to the El Faro, there are a lot of things that will be contributed to any difficulties her crew may have had in surviving. The fact that the boat is open, is, in my opinion, superficial and likely noncontributory.
140 mph winds and 50 ft seas are not ideal conditions even for an enclosed lifeboat.
[QUOTE=QuabbinHiker;170460]I of course do not know the full details of SOLAS as I am not in the industry, but I have an overall sense of what it is about. I focus on it from the sailing aspect. I happen to think that every single ship should be equipped with the latest safety equipment - no matter when the ship was built.
I strongly feel all large ships it should be mandatory for these to be equipped.
Totally Enclosed Life Boat, and Freefall Lifeboats.
For my sailboat, I always go overkill on the safety. I carry a SURVITEC OceanMaster SOLAS-A pack. It’s SOLAS, USCG, and NATO AQAP 1 approved. It cost me nearly $10,000. I have hosted up to 12 people on my sailboat, and have piloted it to Bermuda several times. I am planning a cross Atlantic tip for 2017.
For such a small boat, everyone laughs at me for such overkill on my liferaft. But when disaster happens, I won’t be laughing while I am in the raft waiting for the USCG to help me. I entire safety list is a true laugh to most people, it’s very overkill. So is my electronics package and triple redundant power backup. I have customized the heck out of my baby. I love her very much.
I am a VERY conservative skipper, and everything I do is based in safety when I am on the salt.[/QUOTE]
You are not a ship owner. You are either a spoiled brat or narcissistic fool with no clue about seafarers beyond what you may have read or the local marina. Ship owners do what is needed to meet the minimum requirements to have a business.They aren’t into doing anything that costs them a penny more. If you don’t like the minimums write your senator. Those of us that have, had and do work on such vessels have NO control over the minimum safety requirements. We don’t have the luxury of overkill. We just go to work on whatever is available so that the public can have their Chinese/Indonesian/Norwegian made shit [like your SURVITEC OceanMaster SOLAS-A pack] delivered as cheaply as possible 12 months a year. Go call your congressman and demand we be fitted out with the latest and greatest safety equipment. Let us know how that works out for you.
The Mercy class hospital ships (USNS MERCY, USNS COMFORT) primarily have open lifeboats in addition to semi-closed tenders and scores of life rafts.
On the salt? Is this Jeaux Bo$$ again in another guise?!?! If not, and you’re seriously comparing commercial shipping to what you do on your dinghy, I’m standing with c.captain (for once) and saying that you kindly need to sit down, zip your lip, listen a little, and read some CFR’s and SOLAS regs before chiming in with what some might not realize is only your opinion on most of these threads you’ve commented on.
I believe that there is still one older Alaska State Ferry that only runs Alaska routes (doesn’t travel to Wa. through Canada and need to meet SOLAS regs)that has open boats. Photos on the Alaska State Ferries site show the MV Columbia with open lifeboats and a FRC. The retired Alaska ferryE.L. Bartlett sitting at Seattle Maritime Academy has open boats but I don’t believe that they user her for training under weigh.
The SS Badger in Michigan appears to have open boats. I don’t think any of the Washington State Ferries have open lifeboats but there are many that don’t meet SOLAS. Are there other ferry fleets in the US that also have older vessels still in service with open boats?
All the experts are sure coming out of the woodwork. Happy to see yachtsmen chiming in too. Next talking head on CNN will probably be Paul Watson himself!
[QUOTE=The Commodore;170361]So technically, this is not an open lifeboat but a fast rescue boat. Do not confuse the two and then throw stones at those who somewhat ignorant questions when you knowingly put forward false information yourself.[/QUOTE]
How did I put forward false information??
[QUOTE=salt’n steel;170514]All the experts are sure coming out of the woodwork. Happy to see yachtsmen chiming in too. Next talking head on CNN will probably be Paul Watson himself![/QUOTE]
I would hit the “thanks” button on this 100 times but the stupid default settings won’t let me
Effin blow-boaters are geeking out over this event/forum/thread. A wet dream for them…salty, men against the cruel sea discussions of adventure and danger and “what they would do” as they sit half-tanked at the yacht club. How many of em do we have now? I counted at least 5 on this thread and the El Faro one.
I bet they all have the autographed box set of captain max novels.
[QUOTE=Colston1285;170525]How did I put forward false information??
When you were called out on this comment “They technically are a “fast response craft” (because it has a 125hp outboard motor and can rescue MOBs from the water). It’s basically a small center console fiberglass boat that is painted orange.” you told us “Well its just as useful as the open top boats that were on the El Faro. There also is a ton of new folks reading the forum due to the El Faro so I figured it explain for their sake. Obviously 99% of professional mariners will know what it is lol.” So maybe I am wrong you are not putting forward false info, just ignorant. Don’t be so quick to harsh on these new yachty type posters here, it makes you seem petty like some of the other loudmouths who feel above us all. In all honesty, you are probably a better person than that.
Gotcha, I was just trying to educate the average recent reader of these forums that might not know a thing about maritime items and wanted to point out the difference in those 2 small crafts, they are very similar in design and I doubt the average person can actually tell the difference. I was purely trying to help explain.
[QUOTE=salt’n steel;170514]All the experts are sure coming out of the woodwork. Happy to see yachtsmen chiming in too. Next talking head on CNN will probably be Paul Watson himself![/QUOTE]
I saw old Max Hardberger had a quote on the NBC website. Watson can’t be far behind. These experts make my skin crawl.
I must’ve misread you. In your first post the way you worded made it sound to me like you didn’t know the difference. And although PMC works on Tallships, he and I, and as far as I can tell most of the people in this thread have been here a while.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;170581]I must’ve misread you. In your first post the way you worded made it sound to me like you didn’t know the difference. And although PMC works on Tallships, he and I, and as far as I can tell most of the people in this thread have been here a while.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but as a forum vet said last night, this thread has 90k+ views, there are tons of people reading along that are probably green as can be to maritime topics that don’t know the difference though. Sorry for the confusion.
