If so what type of vessel and where is it flagged? Apparently the El Faro had open lifeboats which I assume were grandfathered.
Honestly, I thought only the academy training ships had them. I didn’t know there were any left in actual commercial service.
Liftboats have them as well as inflatable rafts.
They technically are a “fast response craft” (because it has a 125hp outboard motor and can rescue MOBs from the water). It’s basically a small center console fiberglass boat that is painted orange. My brother has been a liftboat captain for years and he said that’s all he’s ever know to have.
His is American flagged and Jones Act certified.
Yes I have my Fast Rescue Boat certificate. I more then understand why fast rescue boats exist. I think we’re just talking about actual life boats.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;170357]Yes I have my Fast Rescue Boat certificate. I more then understand why fast rescue boats exist. I think we’re just talking about actual life boats.[/QUOTE]
Well its just as useful as the open top boats that were on the El Faro. There also is a ton of new folks reading the forum due to the El Faro so I figured it explain for their sake. Obviously 99% of professional mariners will know what it is lol
[QUOTE=Colston1285;170356]Liftboats have them as well as inflatable rafts.
They technically are a “fast response craft” (because it has a 125hp outboard motor and can rescue MOBs from the water). It’s basically a small center console fiberglass boat that is painted orange. My brother has been a liftboat captain for years and he said that’s all he’s ever know to have.
His is American flagged and Jones Act certified.[/QUOTE]
So technically, this is not an open lifeboat but a fast rescue boat. Do not confuse the two and then throw stones at those who somewhat ignorant questions when you knowingly put forward false information yourself.
Many of the freighters on the Great Lakes have open lifeboats. No way in hell I’d bail out in one of those on Lake Superior. I’d much rather hang with the inflatable rafts in my gumby suit. I don’t see any ships being refitted with new boats any time soon either.
[QUOTE=socalguy;170366]Many of the freighters on the Great Lakes have open lifeboats. No way in hell I’d bail out in one of those on Lake Superior. I’d much rather hang with the inflatable rafts in my gumby suit. I don’t see any ships being refitted with new boats any time soon either.[/QUOTE]
Maybe not next week or next month, but if what we all fear happened on the El Faro, once the reports come out I think you’ll see some change in the US. Shipowners are cheap fucks (we all know that), but this is the chance unions and the public have to eliminate some of this ancient equipment. You’ll see the majority of the people involved come from a handfull of state’s that probably have their own maritime academys, those senators and congressmen will be forced to raise the issue. Whether or not anything changes is anyone’s guess but lets be hopeful that if we did indeed lose all these people in a terrible accident, then they’ll provide change to keep everyone else safe in the future.
If i were TOTE, i’d quietly change those ships under construction to have free fall lifeboats. Even if it wasn’t the problem in the El Faro, its attention to ridiculous gravity davits.
The problem is, how do you put free fall lifeboats on a mid mounted house? I guess on new builds you could have them tucked in aft of the house and 1 could launch off each side, but how could you retro an older vessel?
give up a row or two or containers for 50’ foward of the transom.
[QUOTE=socalguy;170366]Many of the freighters on the Great Lakes have open lifeboats.[/QUOTE]
I believe you are correct. I’ve spent a bit of time on the Lakes, but on smaller vessels. Just checking photos of lakers confirmed that.
It is easy to identify the salts by their orange free fall enclosed lifeboats on their stern.
Granted I have been ashore for some time, but I never sailed with closed lifeboats. . . . hell, on the tugs and ATBs we only had life rafts. . . . I am sure that there are plenty of the older US steamships that still have open lifeboats. Maybe even Fleming gear. . . .
[QUOTE=z-drive;170372]give up a row or two or containers for 50’ foward of the transom.[/QUOTE]
But then how does the crew get there? Not liking the idea of transiting along the rail from a mid ship house to reach lifeboats on the stern when in a blow. Any form of “alley” below decks like the older lakers have only takes away more space. As we know, maximizing cargo space is key. I “might” envision enclosed boats tucked in to the house section closer to the water line; similar to some cruise vessels. You are still dealing with gravity davits then.
As others have said, in those conditions I would prefer a gumby and a raft. But remember, bad weather isn’t the only reason vessels are lost. I can envision at least a few scenarios where getting the crew into a lifeboat and away would be very preferable to a series of rafts.
Edit: Never mind. While I was typing I forgot that MV El Faro was a RO/RO. While not ideal it would making traversing the ship at least easier than I was originally surmising.
The Stone Buccaneer had one. I think she’s out of service now with her single hull. If she doesn’t get scrapped, I doubt they would add a free fall to her.
I signed off the Asphalt Commander (US) in 2007 in Bangladesh. We had two open boats, both had small diesels with oars as secondary, and that was her scrap run. The Energy Enterprise (US) might still have her open boats. Since 2007 no, everything has had fully enclosed boats that I have worked on.
West coast, c-9s Mokihana, Manoa, and Mahi Mahi open LBs. And most likely Lurline, Matsonia, Lihue, Kauai, Maui, and any old Horizon ship like Spirit, etc.
The good thing that will follow this tragedy is a significant improvement in lifesaving gear. Hopefully, that will include better lifeboats and better survival suits.
We need to get beyond this nonesense of owners only providing the minimum required equipment when antiquated regulations were written. The new standard for lifesaving and fire fighting gear needs to be: the best available technology. Continuing upgrades must be required as technology improves.
It’s absurd that in 2015 El Faro was sailing with open lifeboats. Simply absurd. Why were encapsulated lifeboats not added during the 2009 refit? TOTE being cheap, using bullcrap grandfathering rules, taking the risk at the expense of the crews? Yes.
[QUOTE=QuabbinHiker;170412]It’s absurd that in 2015 El Faro was sailing with open lifeboats. Simply absurd. Why were encapsulated lifeboats not added during the 2009 refit? TOTE being cheap, using bullcrap grandfathering rules, taking the risk at the expense of the crews? Yes.[/QUOTE]
again, you are requested to retract your aspersions against Davidson
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[QUOTE=Eyegor;170379]But then how does the crew get there? Not liking the idea of transiting along the rail from a mid ship house to reach lifeboats on the stern when in a blow. Any form of “alley” below decks like the older lakers have only takes away more space. As we know, maximizing cargo space is key. I “might” envision enclosed boats tucked in to the house section closer to the water line; similar to some cruise vessels. You are still dealing with gravity davits then.
As others have said, in those conditions I would prefer a gumby and a raft. But remember, bad weather isn’t the only reason vessels are lost. I can envision at least a few scenarios where getting the crew into a lifeboat and away would be very preferable to a series of rafts.[/QUOTE]
freefall boats are sometimes fitted port and starboard on ships with forward houses. they could have been carried aft of the superstructure so the crew would have been able to get into the low side one without having to go far aft
Some of the larger US flag hopper dredges built in the 1980s still have open boats.