as others say - slack to slight flood is what you would want - IMO no pilot there would have taken that ship off the berth with a strong flood tide. Slight flood to get the stern going in the right direction, move the tug to the bow to push the bow around and then - go forward and you are on your way.
From all the prelim stuff I have seen I don’t think there is any pilot error here - I think the CPP just got stuck and then it is all just damage mitigation at that point -
More information that I’ve seen is that she is NOT a CPP. Pilot from San Diego who handled it at some point says it was just a 1125HP fixed pitch.
You are the expert, but I was always taught if I have one tug (conventional), I make it fast on the port bow. Also taught a long time ago buy the tug guys I worked with - a tug, without a line up - is just about useless.
Amen!
It being CPP, it probably isn’t a reversible engine. From seeing CPP’s stuck in one direction in the past, it’s more likely a sticking slide valve, a bad solenoid valve or even something as simple as not switching control stations properly. But not the engine.
Agree with Tex about no pilot error.
But not about tugs being useless without a line up.
Different situations need different solutions and also how confident would you be with a bunch of Naval Cadets, or even the regular Navy of changing a tugs position promptly.
Thanks to 3M about the info on not CPP.
Not generally a fan of CPP on conventional ships but at least you do know they will go astern … Usually 
Or should I say change direction
“just about” understand it is easier to move around faster in not made up - but if I had a choice I would rather have 2 made up - than move 1 around. Also at least in my limited experience - tugs with out a line up spend significant amounts of HP to stay at the 90 pushing without a line.
In this case it was clearly the plan not to make up the tug from the get go - and I have a ton of respect for the docking masters in NYH - so I am more than sure there was a good reason for it - I just don’t know it yet
Sailing ships would almost never have centreline towing points because of the bowsprit and its rigging. Getting a clear lead is difficult.
My smaller ship only ever uses workboats if needed in tight harbours, usually the harbour line running boat or similar and the rescue boat at the other end.
TDS?
Thank you for that Jug.
Don’t suppose I could request that one thread on this forum could not descend into pro or anti Trump, Please
Yes because VTS would have been so helpful.
“Uh be advised you’re going the wrong way. You should be heading the other way.”
Anybody see’s anything different feel free to correct me but here’s what I see.
Ship was moored head in, port side to. Proposed maneuver was getting underway for sea with the first of the flood current and offsetting winds. These conditions would be acceptable IMO for that pier. There appears to be sufficient room to back clear of the berth with offsetting environmentals, and easily get the bow swung around for sea using the assist boat, while kicking the ship ahead with hard left rudder and departing.
It could just be me but the assist boat appears to have a line up on the stbd quarter for the first part of the job. Check Ausmariner’s photo with the assist boat nosed up to the white sheet on the quarter. Very much appears to be a line up. This would make sense to me if you planned to back out with a very light flood and you wanted some insurance against port stern walk (assuming right hand screw) until you got most of the ship clear of the berth. Even more so because due to the nature of the bowsprit of tall ships, as well as any light poles, flagpoles, electrical boxes on the pier, you are not able to give hard rudder kicks into a spring line and get the quarter well off the pier because you will end up knocking something down on the pier or tearing up the bowsprit.
Once well clear of the berth, slip the assist tugs line and have her drift up to the starboard bow to push bow outbound.
Assist tug was likely ordered to take in his line once ship was mostly clear of berth so he could drift up to push the bow around. Unfortunately during this time period the engine remained stuck astern and the expected “Stop engine” and “Hard left, slow ahead” or something similar never came or at least was never answered because the ship just took off astern.
Also, when ships get stuck ahead or astern, the instinct is often to ring up harder and harder bells in the opposite direction. Until it becomes clear that the engine is stuck in the undesired direction, the opposite bells ordered in increasing power serve only to worsen the situation.
entering the realm of pure speculation - but I would love to see the engine orders to know exactly when they knew they had an issue. IMO this is always a big reason to go really slow - like as slow as you can. If they gave a slow astern bell to start the maneuver off the berth, and went to “all stop” as soon as they had some way on. Maybe another tap of slow astern if needed - and a quick all stop. Not sure I can think of needing any other astern bell once the bow was clear of the dock and you had some sternway on.
If you could not stop the engine from going astern on the first slow astern bell - at least you were still alongside and just maybe the tug could pin you to the dock some - causing some friction.
Again pure speculation now - when exactly were they when they knew they had an engine stuck would be an important piece of info.
We have no idea, just speculation like you said. Pilot could have easily been calmly ordering bells and being told by crew that they were being answered exactly as he asked for, only to see the situation rapidly worsening. This happens all the time.
Also, another wrinkle is that on naval vessels the Captain or his Conning officer often insist on doing the job themselves, only wanting the pilot to help with tugs as they direct. This often makes situation stickier, especially when there is some language barrier.
excellent point
Not knowing you are not getting the bell you ask for is pilot error - even if the crew is conning - watching the tack after the engine order is exactly the same thing as watching the RAI after a helm order.
True, IF you have a RAI and tack to look at. Some ships don’t, or they are difficult or impossible to see from your best conning position, or they don’t work….
yea - even if - if you call for all stop as soon as you have sternway on, and the prop wash doesn’t stop, and you are continuing to accelerate, you should have a pretty good idea you are not getting the bell you want.
There is contradictory evidence whether the ship has a CPP. I talked with a pilot who docked her when she was last in San Diego and he did not recall or believe she had one.
There is a video of a bridge tour but it is hard to makeout the controls.
The bridge is at the 8:00 mark. I would love your expert advise.
