No question, not arguing that. I’m just imagining how it might have gone in my head, is all.
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Hi Sal, love your channel BTW,
At 8:35 the small controller certainly looks like a CPP control but then WTF is that big one to the right.
Only watched it on my phone and it is a bit dark.
I think as a pilot you would be more inclined to notice CPP than not as it is not common on conventional ships.
Different on specialist ships such as offshore vessels.
Not very helpful I am sorry but will try to have another look later on a large screen PC
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I couldn’t make out the top buttons. If any of them are labeled “Constant” & another “Variable/Idel” then is most likely CPP. I’ve only seen those control options on CPP’s, never on fixed blade. The tiny lever at the bottom is probably the emergency/back-up mode but I’ve seen that function on kinds modes of propulsion.
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This was a tragedy but taking into account what I have read in the news, I couldn’t help but think “Ltcdr. Schumer EOW has placed Engineman 3rd Class Trump on report for failing to keep main propulsion running. At this time, it is unknown if PO Trump will face a captain’s mast or a summary court marshal.”
the panel shown at 8:06 sure looks like a CPP panel
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Not sure where I saw it, but I understand the vessel had taken a Harbor Pilot but did not have a Docking Pilot onboard.
If correct, could this have contributed to the possibly incorrect use of the assist tug?
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This was posted on FB on Jan 20 of Cuauhtemoc in drydock and it looks like a fixed prop. Marine Traffic has her in Mexican Navy shipyard in Salina Cruz and shows her in a drydock, so I think this is a current photo.
I can’t tell from those - don’t know
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It is hard to tell.
I cannot find confirmation that the ship has a CPP. In a 60 second minute it is a bit difficult to explain the mechanics of CPP or a transmission system for a CAT D399.
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As always feel free to disagree. First information or reporting is always subject to change.
I am a hsitorian and we are revising what we know about the ancient Romans.
I 100% percent guarantee I will get something wrong and I will not make 100% of everyone happy. People who watch my videos are experts like you and laymen who dont know a bow from a stern, so I if I generalize something it is to make it understandable to a general audience.
My goal is not to dumb anything down but make it acceptable.
Also, Ryan has been supportive of my channel and we had a fun night out drinking and answering questions for his viewers.
I sailed and work in academia so I can work and get along with everyone.
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In my experience CCP’s are designed that if a failure occurs they lock in the ahead position. I would expect the interim report will reveal the machinery installed.
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Had a look on a larger screen but still can’t be sure.
Sorry
May I ???
Thank You and good evening.
I had CPP on two small container ships and on minibulkers/coaters
a) coasters withouth SG ( shaft generator)
You must have two controls : 1 M/E revs & 2 Pitch
All pitch controles looked like ordinary telegraphs with all this stop , full ah , full astern etc stuff.
M/E revs controls had different looks . From mini telegraph to touch buttom panels but I do not remember if the revs control was smooth or step by step .But surely there was a controller.
b) container ships and they had SG
With SG which was supposed or expected to run in ports during manouvering - what I have flately refused to do - only auxilary generators . See Zim Mexico accident in USA) on sister ships from the same shipyard
The bridge panel controlling the M/E speed was a push bottom ( Norcontrol) it contained only two values Port revs abt 90rpm and sea revs abt 130 rpm .
Bringing the revs fm 0 to 90 was done by Engineers and after that and checking if pitch control was at ZERO we switched to bridge control on the panel . Maintaining the constant revs was a fundamental condition for running SG .
The pitch control looked also like ordinary good old telegraph .Nothing kinky. From full ah to sea speed there was running up program activated on the panel . But i do not remember exactly if it was pitch slowly increasing but probably yes .
Now when pilot was gone and we were abt to start BOSP , then I used the pitch telegraph bringing the pitch to abt DSLAH or even stop ( zero pitch)
and informed the stand by Eng I would be switchnig revs to sea revs on the panel. I don not recall it exactly but revs were coming up pretty fast.
After that done . I was not bothered anymore with M/E control panel but attended the telegraph/pitch control lever speeding uo in steps or smoothly to Full AH. After stabilising at FULL Ah informed the engine room about BOSP and moved the handle to FULL ah see speed and pressed the load up program lasting abt 20-25 minutes.
So irrespective if above is 100% accurate or not You surely will need TWO CONTROLLERS. One big ( pitch control ) and smaller one for M/E speed control or a panel.
Hence it is highly likely the bridge config on the video clip shows such arrangement unless they had a bow thruster and the mini thing is the bowthruster controller. But lets wait I am sure Dr.Bugge @ombugge will dig sth up
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NTSB seeks witness videos of
ship’s Brooklyn Bridge crash
Thomas Tracy,
New York Daily News
NEW YORK — The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board is asking for witnesses who shot cellphone videos of the Mexican naval ship Cuauhtémoc striking the Brooklyn Bridge to come forward as the agency works with Mexican authorities to get aboard and access any data recorders the sailboat may have, officials said Tuesday.
The Cuauhtémoc remains docked off Pier 37 as work crews shore up the ship’s three splintered masts. The ship is expected to be taken to a nearby salvage yard where a full investigation can be held.
Two crew members died on the ship when its masts collided with the underside of the bridge on Saturday night.
The NTSB is still negotiating access to the ship with the Mexican government, NTSB Board Member Michael Graham said Monday.
Once they’re allowed on board they hope to interview crew members and see if the ship had any data recorders that can provide critical information, said Graham, who could not confirm reports by the NYPD that an engine failure may have caused the crash.
“We don’t know where the NYPD got that data,” Graham said. “We haven’t accessed the engine, so we don’t know that. We’re not sure where they got that from. We are optimistic we will have that access very soon.”
While they work on gaining access, Graham asked anyone who has video of the crash to reach out to investigators at Witness@ntsb.gov.
At the time of the collision, the ship was sailing against the river’s tide and facing 10 mph wind.
The NTSB will focus on what mechanical issues and conditions in the river may have led to the crash.
The agency will also be checking tugboat protocols in the East River after officials expressed that a tugboat taking the ship away from Pier 17 at South Street Seaport should have towed the vessel further away.
Video of the incident shows a tugboat racing to catch up with the ship as it drifts in the wrong direction.
After leaving the pier, the ship accelerated backwards, ultimately reaching a speed of about 6 knots. “At 8:24 p.m., the VHF radio broadcast was sounded requesting assistance from other tugboats in the area of the bridge,” investigator in charge Brian Young said. That broadcast was followed by additional calls for assistance.
“At 8:24 and 45 seconds, the vessel’s masts struck the underside of the Brooklyn Bridge,” Young said.
Young said his investigators are still trying to determine exactly why the ship began to accelerate backwards.
The bridge avoided serious damage and was never at risk of collapse, officials said.
Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum said Monday the boat would likely be repaired at a New York shipyard and returned to the Mexican navy.
Many of the crew members from the ship returned to their home country on Monday.
The ship was heading for Iceland when it drifted into the East River span, which is about 30 feet lower than the ship’s masts. It was supposed to head south to refuel in Bay Ridge before heading out of New York Harbor and was never meant to sail under the bridge.
Crew members were harnessed to the masts for the ship’s traditional departure performance at the time of the collision.
According to the FDNY, 27 of those aboard were treated for injuries, with 11 in critical condition.
The deceased were identified Sunday as América Yamilet Sanchez, 21, and Adal Jair Marcos, 22.
The Cuauhtémoc arrived in New York last week as part of a global goodwill tour. It had been docked at South Street Seaport Pier 17 and was open to visitors.
A sailing vessel will generally have a CPP to reduce drag while underway under sail and reduce wear on the shaft components, smaller yachts can have folding props.
I would expect that the engine would be operated at a set RPM during manoeuvring.
A main engine driving a CPP with a shaft generator normally runs at 600 rpm with shaft revs at 150 rpm after reduction.
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Neither can I and untill this moment I can not find it.
Sure thing the public do not need it or even expect it.
Meantime :
From 0819 to 0822 was she paddling to leave berth and move into position when she was at 0822 or tug pulled her out meaning it was made fast in one way or another . We do not know that yet.
With CPP one does not need a tug at all do depart berth in this configuration if all works fine and CPP is right handed turning right all the time with forward pitch or astern pitch.
Suspect they kept the tug on stand by solely to speed up turning and due to proximity of the bridge and current and wind condition . Apparently it did not work. The pilots input here is great and very educating .
CPP bridge controls vary greatly.
One of the most common bridge controls on a standard ship of a certain age, by which I mean anything built in the last 20 year or so is the Konningsberg? Auto Chief . Seen by myself on literally hundreds if not thousands of ships.
It’s a big clunky handle that gives no doubt what the engine setting is. It must be familiar to all pilots and all Masters of larger ships. It is not dissimilar to the large control in Sal’s video of the bridge of the ship although more modern looking.
Trouble is that this control can also be configured to operate CPP as well. A Well known and well regarded German Tanker company GT has several Tankers around the 30 to 50k DWT with most of them fitted with Auto Chief. The vast majority of these ships are fixed pitch but there are a small number that are CPP .
As we all know, CPP ships handle very differently to fixed so we have to be certain we know which we are on board.
What I am trying to say is that without us being able to actually read the words next to the controls it is very difficult to say for sure if the STS was CPP or not.
Best to wait for a definite answer from someone who actually knows.
I checked other tall ships and can not find CPP fited yet.
Last time I run on CPP was 1999 so my memory may be a bit hazy but because i hade a huge row with the thechnical management and o/b engineers about the use of SG in port then i remember studing the system in depth from blueprints and specs. I was so pissed off by their demands that I run en experiment test in safe waters time allowing , to demonstrate that SG in port supplying bow thruster is an accident waiting to happen and a ticking bomb. I set all up as per their instructions -port settings , and SG engaged and BT at 90% to port/stb and then I kicked the telegraph ( pitch ) from DSAH to FUAH and SG conked out and BT went dead. Finito the la musica . I repeated it again and again, logged , photographed , filmed all shebang and send to office with a clear and polite message to f…off. And smart ass engineers got a letter that their care for running hrs and fuel savings was appreciated but in port there would be no SG .Piriod .
Office reluctantly agreed.
Two years later ZIM Mexico III had an accident with gantry crane and one fatality in USA. Capt Shroeder went into a hole following engineering instructtion . Investigation revealed there was a technical glitch on all sister vessels from the same shipyard. I did not know about the the glitch following only my gut instinct. But if the results of my experiment were shared with others may be the life of gantry technician would be spared and the good experienced master with excellent ecord would not end up in a hole at the end of his career. Cheers