AMO Pension

[B]Time to keep this thread on point and not let it turn into a childish free for all that some would hope happens. [/B]We all await what questions Mainiac has for Bethel along with a reply, it builds on the discussion in this thread.

I find it funny that the ychangenow crowd tries to brush off this forum with the following statement from their site “[B]Jon already participates in an anonymous Internet “forum” thread dedicated to attacking our administration through overheated rhetoric, inaccurate statements and uninformed commentary. In one recent post, Jon – using the screen name “Mainiac” (Jon’s spelling, not mine) – distorted an exchange he and I had had the night before during the informational AMO membership meeting in Newport News[/B].”

True there have been some tough and blunt questions along with ideas posted here, it would help to dispel with [B]proof[/B] any of the statements that people feel are inaccurate from both sides. Like it or not [B]THIS[/B] forum has become a place to which the rank and file come to follow what is going on with the election.

Since Both sides do not have a Forum on their sites questions and answers will continued to be posted here. Makes sense to get the word out in mass vs one phone call at a time!

Did anyone notice that AMO is now a sponsor of this website? Kind of amusing considering the beating the leadership is taking on this forum.
AMO has always been a union where you could get a job, finding out what you were going to get paid could be something of a mystery. That being said, the medical and pension were always decent but sometimes frustrating to deal with. In the last few years the current administration has opened up and made things more transparent, which was almost inevitable after the previous President and Treasurer went to jail for their various misdeeds and horrendous reign of terror. The main issue in this thread has been the direction in which the pension plan is going to go forward. The pension rules and regs are very complex, the federal gov’t has it’s tentacles into this and although I’m not 100% sure, eliminating the 20 year and out was probably the best way of getting the financial house in order. A super 401k which is essentially what the replacement plan is could work out very well. Let’s face it pensions are and have been a dying animal for quite awhile.
Now if it’s determined that any aspect of the current plan favors shoreside personnel over the sea-going members who fund it that needs to be corrected. If a person sails and has contributions made for his billet I believe they deserve whatever is due. Shoreside personnel should have wage packages and benefits that are comparable to other shoreside jobs. Just my lengthy 2 cents

Hey guys thanks for the support, my name is Jon Sprague and I have gone by the handle of Mainiac for years on many hunting and fishing posts. Tom Bethel decided to make a private comment into a Public Post. I never asked to receive his ychangenow.com propaganda, it struck a cord and I responded. I am a 1st engineer on an old steam ship I have been busting my ass on these old ships for years. I am not a candidate I am one of you. I am not afraid of getting BLACK BALLED, and neither should you, make sure your dues are paid up, and if you have any problems you can call me at 757-897-8738

My question is WILL THE AMO UNION PRESIDENT MAKE THIS ELECTION FAIR? NO BURNING OF BALLOTS, NO COMPROMISING OF MAILING LISTS, NO INTIMIDATING UNION MEMBERS TO SPEAK THEIR PEACE, NO COERCION WHEN WE ASSEMBLE.

Jon Sprague

I only have one question: If they “are more visible, more accessible, more accountable…” why doesn’t ychangenow open up comments on their blog posts??? I’ve never seen a blog without comments before, it’s just crazy.

Without comments where is the “lively and instructive discussion” they talk about??

AMC Progress Update: Newport News, Virginia Meeting

The American Maritime Officers passed a major milestone on the night of July 27<SUP>th</SUP>, 2010. More than 20 seagoing members gathered together in Newport News, Virginia to seek a way to move forward for their union. Nearly all attendees raised important issues and asked hard questions. They wanted answers.
Fielding these questions were AMC candidates Rich Horne, Jim Schwartz, and Jack Hearn. These men are seagoing AMO members of considerable experience who share these very same concerns.
The AMC candidates solicited input, made recommendations, and presented viable solutions. They again demonstrated their overwhelming desire to solicit input from and work for the benefit of their fellow union members. They discussed the AMC platform which has, as its core, the goal of re-focusing ALL union efforts on the members and their collective welfare.
Much of the discussion centered on the Pension Fund and the Revised Rehabilitation Plan. The AMC believes union members are entitled to straight answers and complete openness and fairness in dealing with this difficult issue. We hold with the membership positions we heard on the 27<SUP>th</SUP>: that the contribution schedules presented thus far are unfair and unequal, that the contributions are not uniformly applied, and that the contributions may be too small to support a sailing AMO member’s retirement.
We are taking action. The AMC is working diligently and proactively with experienced professionals to address this primary concern.
Joe Connors, a dignified man with one of the strongest legacies in national labor, has agreed to guide our study of the problem. Joe has experience with labor going back to the hallmark days of John L. Lewis and the United Mine Workers where he served as Chairman of the Board of Trustees. Working with then-UMW President Richard Trumka, Joe steered the $8.5 billion UMW Pension Fund through the difficult economic downturn of the late 1980’s. Under his leadership, the UMW pension fund weathered this challenging economic period and emerged with an even stronger fund for the members. Today Mr. Trumka is President of the AFL-CIO. It is a credit to Joe Connors that he has worked with union leaders of such stature but Joe is most proud of his accomplishments “that benefit the beneficiaries first”. These men are powerful examples of what good union government can accomplish for the membership.
Joe Connors has volunteered to help guide the AMC campaign. He has worked pro bono, not charging a cent to our cause. Joe has mentored Jack Hearn and the AMC effort since 2006. He is building a network of his colleagues to help our effort in 2010 and beyond.
Due to the intimidating and negative campaign climate engendered by the incumbents in previous and current campaigns, the AMC chose not to identify Mr. Connors’ role sooner. Joe has recommended that we do so now.
Joe, and many other good people, want to help the AMO community improve the welfare of members and their families through better union government.
The Newport News meeting underscored this fact; the AMO membership wants better union management. AMO members are seafarers with years of professional and personal sacrifice at sea. They deserve better management where we will work together for these improvements.
We thank every AMO member who attended and those who are writing to us. Your feedback, ideas, suggestions, and demands are well received and will be addressed.
We ask for an opportunity to serve you. And we ask you for your vote.
You can meet with an AMC representative in the following ports and cities within the State of: Maine, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Ohio, Virginia, Florida, Texas, California, Oregon, and Washington.

AMC Progress Update: Newport News, Virginia Meeting

The American Maritime Officers passed a major milestone on the night of July 27<SUP>th</SUP>, 2010. More than 20 seagoing members gathered together in Newport News, Virginia to seek a way to move forward for their union. Nearly all attendees raised important issues and asked hard questions. They wanted answers.
Fielding these questions were AMC candidates Rich Horne, Jim Schwartz, and Jack Hearn. These men are seagoing AMO members of considerable experience who share these very same concerns.
The AMC candidates solicited input, made recommendations, and presented viable solutions. They again demonstrated their overwhelming desire to solicit input from and work for the benefit of their fellow union members. They discussed the AMC platform which has, as its core, the goal of re-focusing ALL union efforts on the members and their collective welfare.
Much of the discussion centered on the Pension Fund and the Revised Rehabilitation Plan. The AMC believes union members are entitled to straight answers and complete openness and fairness in dealing with this difficult issue. We hold with the membership positions we heard on the 27<SUP>th</SUP>: that the contribution schedules presented thus far are unfair and unequal, that the contributions are not uniformly applied, and that the contributions may be too small to support a sailing AMO member’s retirement.
We are taking action. The AMC is working diligently and proactively with experienced professionals to address this primary concern.
Joe Connors, a dignified man with one of the strongest legacies in national labor, has agreed to guide our study of the problem. Joe has experience with labor going back to the hallmark days of John L. Lewis and the United Mine Workers where he served as Chairman of the Board of Trustees. Working with then-UMW President Richard Trumka, Joe steered the $8.5 billion UMW Pension Fund through the difficult economic downturn of the late 1980’s. Under his leadership, the UMW pension fund weathered this challenging economic period and emerged with an even stronger fund for the members. Today Mr. Trumka is President of the AFL-CIO. It is a credit to Joe Connors that he has worked with union leaders of such stature but Joe is most proud of his accomplishments “that benefit the beneficiaries first”. These men are powerful examples of what good union government can accomplish for the membership.
Joe Connors has volunteered to help guide the AMC campaign. He has worked pro bono, not charging a cent to our cause. Joe has mentored Jack Hearn and the AMC effort since 2006. He is building a network of his colleagues to help our effort in 2010 and beyond.
Due to the intimidating and negative campaign climate engendered by the incumbents in previous and current campaigns, the AMC chose not to identify Mr. Connors’ role sooner. Joe has recommended that we do so now.
Joe, and many other good people, want to help the AMO community improve the welfare of members and their families through better union government.
The Newport News meeting underscored this fact; the AMO membership wants better union management. AMO members are seafarers with years of professional and personal sacrifice at sea. They deserve better management where we will work together for these improvements.
We thank every AMO member who attended and those who are writing to us. Your feedback, ideas, suggestions, and demands are well received and will be addressed.
We ask for an opportunity to serve you. And we ask you for your vote.
You can meet with an AMC representative in the following ports and cities within the State of: Maine, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Ohio, Virginia, Florida, Texas, California, Oregon, and Washington.

Nothing wrong with a fresh view on our pension by a person who has been involved in the protection of pensions in the past (United Mine Workers) I plan on researching the UMW and their fund and hope to learn that things worked out for them. Then I look forward to hearing how Mr. Connors feels we can best go forward with the AMO Pension in a way that is equitable to all parties involved! [B]What is currently being suggested is total garbage that has no interested in guys who have invested 8 plus years into this union but rather heavily slanted in favor of those with a buyout[/B] and making sure they get a second slice of the pie!

[B]Make sure you have your dues paid through the end of the year so as to make your vote count![/B]

I’m hearing a lot of chatter on this election from my contacts in Diego and Guam/Saipan keep spreading the word and checking this site until we see forums on both sides as suggested. 7500 “hits” and climbing so this is getting good coverage

Below is a Dec 2008 AMO Currents e-mail, maybe we should have factored in a “Run on the Bank” buyout frenzy and how that would effect the pension plan. I’m glad it worked out for those taking the buyout before it went away but what about the rest of us? I did not see a Dec 2009 all is well e-mail like this one posted below, instead I’m looking at a schedule that provides for EVERYONE a new pension plan with a real slap in the face contribution level set to benefit the guys who grabbed a buyout and get the chance to hold down the top slots and biggest contributions in the new scheme being sold to us.

“No immediate measures are needed to keep the American Maritime Officers
Pension Plan sound through 2009, the plan¹s trustees have concluded.
The joint union-employer trustees met in emergency session in Dania
Beach to address a three-pronged threat to the AMO Pension Plan and to
single and multiemployer defined benefit pension plans in the private and
public sectors nationwide < difficult funding requirements under the Pension
Protection Act of 2006, massive and sustained losses in investment markets
in 2008, and a deepening recession.
The Plan¹s actuaries and counsel and AMO Plans Executive Director Steve
Nickerson participated in the lengthy meeting.
³The AMO Pension Plan is strong < for now,² said AMO National President
Tom Bethel. ³The Plan expects to meet its current obligations and cover its
liabilities safely in 2009 with no reduction in benefits, no freeze on
pension credits, no restrictions on benefit options and no additional
contributions from deep-sea, Great Lakes and inland waters employers.
³However, we cannot say for certain < no one can say for certain < what
the AMO Pension Plan¹s condition will be in 2010 or beyond,² Bethel
continued. ³The Pension Protection Act remains a burden to all defined
benefit pension plans, investment markets remain unstable and prevailing
economic conditions could result in fewer cargoes and less business for U.S.
merchant vessel operators in all trades < vessels withdrawn from service
because of weak demand do not provide the jobs that represent employer
contributions to the AMO Pension Plan and the other benefit funds
established for all AMO members and their families.²
Bethel, who serves as alternating chairman and secretary of the AMO
Plans trustees, cited ³a traumatic combination of factors² affecting the AMO
Pension Plan, including the collapse of investment markets and funding
mandates under the 2006 law.
³Like all individual and institutional investors, the AMO Pension Plan
suffered steep losses in the stock and bond markets in 2008,² Bethel
explained. ³Meanwhile, the Pension Protection Act kicked in like a mule,
requiring multiemployer plans like ours to fund liabilities over 15 years
instead of 30 < anyone whose 30-year mortgage becomes a 15-year mortgage
knows what this does to the cost of the mortgage and the payments that must
be made in full and on time.²
Bethel said specific provisions of the Pension Protection Act could
force ³substantial increases in employer contributions to the AMO Pension
Plan < possibly as high as 300 percent.²
The AMO Pension Plan trustees also considered the potential impact of
H.R. 7327, which would amend the Pension Protection Act in part by
postponing the rigid funding requirements for two years and delaying the
required ³funding and rehabilitation periods² for fragile multiemployer
plans designated in 2008 or 2009 as ³endangered² or ³critical.² The AMO
Pension Plan is not now considered at risk under the standards set for each
category by the Pension Protection Act.
³H.R. 7327 would give defined benefit pension plans room to breathe,
with the hope that the investment markets will have stabilized and improved
in two years,² Bethel said. ³The bill would buy time < without it, some 90
percent of the defined benefit pension plans in the United States would go
under in 2009.²
Bethel added: ³The Pension Protection Act was well intentioned, but its
framers did not foresee the catastrophic current conditions that are driving
retirement account values down to such perilous levels, and several of the
law¹s provisions could destroy, rather than protect, defined benefit pension
plans. H.R. 7327 is helpful, and it is certainly welcome, but it is not the
permanent fix working families deserve.²
H.R. 7327 < titled the ³Worker, Retiree and Employer Recovery Act of
2008²< was approved without objection in the House of Representatives Dec.
10 and by unanimous consent in the Senate Dec. 11. The President is expected
to sign the legislation into law before the New Year.
³Retirement security emerged this year as one of the most important
issues of our time,² Bethel said. ³We will not lose focus on it, and we will
keep all AMO families informed of all developments on this critical front.²#”

Here is a link to a Motley Fool article on the Pension Protection Act of 2006 and who it really protected…big business

From the ychangenow site:

No news out of Newport News
Jack Hearn and two members of his AMO Membership Committee (AMC) hosted a July 27 gathering of “more than 20” AMO members in Newport News, an event Jack and the AMC later touted as “a major milestone” for our union.

“Nearly all attendees raised important issues and asked hard questions,” said an unsigned account of the session on the Hearn-AMC campaign Web site. “They wanted answers.” The Hearn-AMC account did not include a representative sampling of the evening’s questions and answers, which would have been helpful to seagoing AMO members who were not there.

“The AMC candidates solicited input, made recommendations and presented viable solutions,” Jack and the AMC said in their account, which did not summarize what was suggested from the floor or what was recommended by Jack, Chris Horne and Jim Schwartz. No “viable solutions” were provided in the Hearn-AMC account – a significant omission that did nothing to promote an informed vote of the AMO membership in this year’s election.

In short, there was no news out of Newport News that night.

Accounts we received from Charles Murdock and independently from other AMO members in attendance said Jack, Chris and Jim were no more forthcoming in person about the secretive Hearn-AMC agenda than Jack and the AMC are in their campaign Web posts. Jack and his running mates provided no details to flesh out bony Hearn-AMC policy proposals.

Jack reportedly relied heavily on a stock answer to direct questions – “It will be more equitable.”

Asked how a Hearn-AMC administration would differ from ours on the difficult and increasingly important issue of retirement security in AMO, Jack said his alternative strategy would “be more equitable.”

Asked about “rotary shipping” under a Hearn-AMC administration Jack – who has never shipped through the dispatch desks, and who has held a permanent job throughout his AMO career – replied that it would “be more equitable.”

Asked by Murdock if he would be willing to debate issues with Tom Bethel, Jack replied: “I’d have to ask my lawyer.”

The night apparently did not go as Jack Hearn, Chris Horne and Jim Schwartz had anticipated. But it was a disappointing turn as well for AMO members who went to Newport News looking for inspiration or a real reason to vote for Jack and the AMC.

[I][B]A footnote:[/B] during the gathering in Newport News, Jack discussed retirement issues in a typically vague way. We will address his comments and the little we have learned about the Hearn-AMC pension alternative separately.[/I]

I’ve got to agree with this post as the AMC site seems to have very little content and only a broad statement on a meeting held towards the end of July in Newport News. Where are the details and dialog? Also I hear that most of the AMC guys will be heading back to work shortly if not already. I know everyone needs to make money but how can you run a campaign from several different ships and locations? Do any of the AMC guys have a buyout or are they like the rest of us needing the money? Just seems like it might have been better take a break from shipping while this election was in progress. I will give credit to the ychangenow folks…their website is constantly being updated for good or bad! [B]Information creates votes[/B] where silence makes people wonder what is going on!

mariner173

I was at the meeting and there take (ychangenow) is a total lie, members asked questions and got specific answers, ychangenow is nothing but propaganda a way of continuing to control you your shipmates. Here’s a question and answer Tom: ychangenow? BECAUSE YOU LOST OUR PENSION! Jon Sprague

Anyone else seen this?

Jack:

Charles Murdock was on to something when he asked you in Newport News if you would be willing to debate issues with me before the ballots are mailed Sept. 1. I am sure you will agree that an honest face-to-face discussion would be informative and helpful to everyone in our union.

I propose an open forum any day before you return to your vessel, and I suggest we hold this forum in the 2nd floor dining room at STAR Center in Dania Beach from 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM. The format would be simple — all AMO members in attendance would be encouraged to ask either or both of us any question on any issue.

I propose further that the debate be recorded by an independent video firm for immediate and unedited uploading to You Tube and/or to our respective campaign Web sites so that all deep-sea, Great Lakes and inland waters AMO members can view the debate in its entirety.

Our campaign is willing to cover the cost of renting the room from STAR Center and to record the event for both campaigns. You would be responsible only for the cost of transportation to and from the debate.

I look forward to our conversation — assuming, of course, that your attorney allows you to participate.

Sincerely,
Tom Bethel

From ychangenow.com

Jack’s pension counselor

In a post on their campaign Web site, Jack Hearn and his AMO Membership Committee (AMC) said they had turned to “experienced professionals” for advice on retirement security – the most important issue in this year’s AMO election.

Despite use of the plural, Jack and the AMC identified only one man as their pension counselor – Joe Connors, who Jack and the AMC said had “agreed to guide our study of the problem” at no cost to the Hearn-AMC campaign. According to Jack and the AMC, Mr. Connors "has experience with labor going back to the hallmark days of John L. Lewis and the United Mine Workers, where he served as chairman of the Board of Trustees."
For an accurate sense of the depth of the nationwide pension crisis, consider one of its recent casualties – the United Mine Workers Pension Fund.

Lewis served as UMW President from 1920 until 1960. We do not know if Mr. Connors was there in 1946 when the UMW and the Truman administration signed an agreement providing the federal government’s guarantee of the Mine Workers’ medical and retirement benefit fund.

In fact, we do not know anything about Joe Connors, personally or professionally. We cannot comment objectively on his credentials, his capabilities or his career. We are certain that Mr. Connors earned much admiration and respect in labor and industry during his service to the UMW, and we are certain that he is – in Jack’s words – a “dignified” and “good” man.

But we can comment fairly on what Jack and the AMC expect AMO members to believe Mr. Connors can achieve on their behalf during a persistent nationwide pension crisis that shows no sign of easing.

“Working with then-UMW President Richard Trumka, Joe steered the $8.5 billion UMW Pension Fund through the difficult economic downturn of the late 1980s,” Jack and the AMC wrote. “Under his leadership, the UMW Pension Fund weathered this challenging economic period and emerged with an even stronger fund for the members.”

Two immediate observations: the defined benefit AMO Pension Plan also endured the mid-1980s economic recession and emerged as an even stronger fund; and the Reagan recession was nothing at all like the 2008 investment market collapse that devastated so many traditional retirement funds, including the AMO Pension Plan – comparisons here are both inappropriate and pointless.

Jack and the AMC have said the state of the AMO Pension Plan is the result of poor management, not a consequence of the steep market nosedive, a persistent recession and the difficult requirements of the Pension Protection Act of 2006. Despite having posted a list of pension funds now in “critical” status as defined in the Pension Protection Act on their campaign Web site, Jack and the AMC want you to believe that the AMO Pension Plan is the exception, not the rule.

For an accurate sense of the depth of the nationwide pension crisis, consider one of its recent casualties – the United Mine Workers Pension Fund.

One month ago, Associated Press reported that the UMW fund was going broke – a warning echoed by West Virginia Democratic Congressman Nick Rahall, who has proposed what would amount to a federal bailout of the Mine Workers’ fund in the spirit of the 1946 UMW benefit guarantee agreement.

The Congressman told one West Virginia newspaper that the fund was in trouble because of the market meltdown, the small number of active UMW members and the large number of UMW members and dependents who retired from companies that no longer exist – when companies participating in defined benefit pension plans go under, the remaining companies supporting the plan have to cover the defunct companies’ liabilities.

“The problems which plagued the UMWA health program in the past are now afflicting their pension plan,” Rep. Rahall said on the House floor June 23. “At present, well over half of the current retirees never worked for the coal companies currently participating in that plan. This situation, as well as the recent economic downturn, has placed the pension plan on the road to insolvency.” The Congressman said the pensions of more than 120,000 people were at stake.

Rep. Rahall is the principal sponsor of H.R. 5479, the Coal Accountability and Retired Employee Act of 2010 – the “CARE Act.” The bill would divert unobligated funds from an abandoned mine reclamation program to the UMWA Pension Fund.

Joe Connors could not have prevented the UMWA Pension Fund’s freefall. He could not have prevented what happened to the AMO Pension Plan. Nor can Mr. Connors now recommend ways to reverse the AMO Pension Plan’s decline or suggest rehabilitation strategies that had not been considered by the joint union-employer AMO Pension Plan Board of Trustees.

The unfortunate, even tragic truth here is that the UMWA Pension Fund and the AMO Pension Plan reflect the harsh new reality shaping the fate of defined benefit pension plans in the private and public sectors coast-to-coast. With all due respect to Joe Connors, conditions now are not what they were in John L. Lewis’s day.

AMO members who believe that Jack Hearn and the AMC have developed an effective alternative to the rehabilitation plan adopted by the AMO Pension Plan trustees are advised at this point that Jack and the AMC have no pension strategy at all. Jack has already hinted that the rehabilitation plan now in place in AMO would remain indefinitely under a Hearn-AMC administration.

Ask Jack and the AMC to explain specifically what they would do with respect to the retirement security issue as elected officials of AMO – with or without guidance from Joe Connors. Ask them how they would balance the individual circumstances of nearly 4,000 people and develop a fair alternative that would please everyone everywhere. Ask Jack and the AMC if they understand that, no matter who wins this year’s election, the defined benefit AMO Pension Plan will still be in “critical” status, and that federal law and regulation will determine what Jack and the AMC could or could not do.

If Jack and the AMC surprise you with detailed responses and a credible, responsible way to address this difficult dilemma, please suggest to them that they post these responses on their campaign Web site in the interest of an informed vote of the deep-sea, Great Lakes and inland waters membership.

[QUOTE=mainiac;40928]mariner173

I was at the meeting and there take (ychangenow) is a total lie, members asked questions and got specific answers, ychangenow is nothing but propaganda a way of continuing to control you your shipmates. Here’s a question and answer Tom: ychangenow? BECAUSE YOU LOST OUR PENSION! Jon Sprague[/QUOTE]

So you were at the meeting. Too many of us were not. Why don’t you tell us what Hearn and the AMC said about their pension recovery plan? What would they do and when would they do it? What will we know and when will we know it?

From ychangenow.com

Strange that Hearn never mentioned his status

Jack and the lump-sum pension issue

A handful of anonymous supporters of Jack Hearn and his AMO Membership Committee are using an Internet forum thread to foment resentment of AMO members who qualified for and received in-service lump-sum retirement benefits from the AMO Pension Plan before this popular option was ended in October 2009 as required under federal law.

Some of these nameless critics do not want lump-sum pension recipients to participate in the forthcoming AMO Defined Contribution Plan at all. Others do not want lump-sum recipients’ cumulative years of credit to count in DC Plan employer contribution calculations. Some do not want lump-sum recipients to continue working at sea.

Jack and the AMC have said nothing publicly about this especially contentious aspect of the single most important issue in this election. The closest Jack and the AMC have come openly to landing on either side of this divide was Jack’s announcement to AMO members at a July 27 gathering in Newport News that the Hearn-AMC campaign would soon issue a “statement” on the status of in-service lump-sum pension benefit recipients.

Which brings us to a point worth making at this point. Last year, Jack Hearn received an in-service lump-sum pension benefit from the AMO Pension Plan in excess of $1 million, and he remained on the job at sea.

Under this circumstance, it is fair to ask: Whether he is elected as national president of AMO or not, will Jack Hearn attempt to bow out of the AMO Defined Contribution Plan in January 2011? Will Jack participate in the DC Plan but demand that his employer contribution be based only on covered employment beginning the day after the date of his lump-sum pension check? Will Jack retire to appease the reckless faction backing the Hearn-AMC campaign on the Internet thread?

“Pension law will govern this matter on an individual as well as a procedural basis,” Jack wrote about the lump-sum issue in a recent e-mail to an AMO member at sea. “We will have to work within the system we inherit but intend to promote effective improvements as quickly as possible to reach the goals of reducing your pension age and improving your pension benefit as high as possible.”

Translation: Jack Hearn intends to participate in the AMO Defined Contribution Plan to the greatest possible extent because federal law requires it.

Jack’s comment to the AMO member was a revelation in other ways as well. Jack apparently is not aware that AMO members still have the option of retiring after 20 years of service, regardless of age. And, despite attempts by the Hearn-AMC campaign to encourage the belief that Jack has an effective alternative retirement security strategy ready to go on Day 1 of a Hearn-AMC administration, Jack and the AMC have no plan at all.

A footnote: Tom Bethel, Jose Leonard, Joe Gremelsbacker and Don Cree also have qualified for and received in-service lump-sum benefits from the AMO Pension Plan. Bob Kiefer, Charles Murdock and Mike Murphy have not received lump-sum benefits from the AMO Pension Plan.

Great statement listed above and true the [B]AMC guys need to get something out with how they stand on this issue ASAP.[/B]

[B]Does Federal Law require that people who got the buyout get the largest contribution in the DC plan?[/B] I love that the rank and files bitches about what is being suggested by the current admin is not being taken into consideration and basically the majority of us feel that the new plan is being catered towards guys who got their buyout (AKA roughly 25% of the membership as per what Bethel has said in regional meetings) Why not reduce buyout people back to zero years service? Their age in most cases will assist in a better contribution rate anyway, correct? I have said before that buyout people should be restriced to rotary shipping so as to limit their ability to homestead the top paying positions and let the rest of us earn a better contribution rate in the new plan, by doing so they still get to make money but it will not be at the cost of someone without a buyout being forced to work in a lower position with a lower contribution rate waiting forever for them to finally get out of the industry. I would suggest the same of Jack Hearn since he has a buyout.

“A handful of anonymous supporters of Jack Hearn and his AMO Membership Committee are using an Internet forum thread to foment resentment of AMO members who qualified for and received in-service lump-sum retirement benefits from the AMO Pension Plan before this popular option was ended in October 2009 as required under federal law.”

Guys…where is the dialog space on both your websites? Try as you may at slamming this forum but at the end of the day people are trying to make suggestions to improve the situation in the union. Instead of using “[B]Foment resentment[/B]” maybe try “[B]make things more equitable for everyone[/B]” Is the above statement trying to suggest we not come out with ideas on this forum? I do not understand why discussion in this forum would be considered reckless!

It would be nice to see other people pipe up in this forum, hate to consider myself a minor member of a reckless faction instead of a voice for the 75% who did not end up with a buyout! Does anyone have a better suggestion on the issue? I’m all ears!

Mariner 173, I think it’s pretty clear from a lot of what’s been said here that a lot of people resent the lump-sum pensioners and want others to resent them too. Read some of the posts again and you’ll see what I mean. Hearn and the AMC have done nothing to discourage the lynch mob mentality.

Another AMO election around the corner and here is good old Paul Doell, Tom Bethel’s paid mouthpiece here spreading lies under a new alias- “Hearnia” AMO members are paying this guy over 200,000 dollars a year to do Tom Bethel’s lying while on the AMO clock.
Paul Doell is the only person Bethel knows who can spell. He is a clever propagandist, and a fine writer too, but he’s also a racketeer like Bethel, Gbacher, Kiefer, Glanstein, McKay x 2 et. al.
Let me tell you something true about Jack Hearn, Paul. He, unlike you, is a seaman. I have sailed all over the world with Jack Hearn, and in 28 years of sailing he is the best Captain I’ve ever met hands down. On top of that he is the kindest, most honest, and decent human being I know. I am a better man for knowing him. You, Paul, are a racketeer - and that is the second lowest form of criminal - just after pedophile.
The only question to ask: was the AMO pension collapse simple incompetence, or was it something they cooked up with Larry Goldstock to let the employers off the fiduciary hook? In either case Bethel deserves to be thrown out on his teeth for helping himself to millions and destroying the pensions of everyone else.
Let’s get this party started Paul! Pop that old gray head up take a swing you rat!

[QUOTE=Hearnia;40945]Anyone else seen this?

Jack:

Charles Murdock was on to something when he asked you in Newport News if you would be willing to debate issues with me before the ballots are mailed Sept. 1. I am sure you will agree that an honest face-to-face discussion would be informative and helpful to everyone in our union.

I propose an open forum any day before you return to your vessel, and I suggest we hold this forum in the 2nd floor dining room at STAR Center in Dania Beach from 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM. The format would be simple — all AMO members in attendance would be encouraged to ask either or both of us any question on any issue.

I propose further that the debate be recorded by an independent video firm for immediate and unedited uploading to You Tube and/or to our respective campaign Web sites so that all deep-sea, Great Lakes and inland waters AMO members can view the debate in its entirety.

Our campaign is willing to cover the cost of renting the room from STAR Center and to record the event for both campaigns. You would be responsible only for the cost of transportation to and from the debate.

I look forward to our conversation — assuming, of course, that your attorney allows you to participate.

Sincerely,
Tom Bethel[/QUOTE]

Wow Palmer!!! Calling a guy a “criminal” and a “racketeer” and a “rat” and just this side of a “pedophile” is one thing, but pointing out his “old gray head” has gotta hurt!!!

"A handful of anonymous supporters of Jack Hearn and his AMO Membership Committee are using an Internet forum thread to foment resentment of AMO members who qualified for and received in-service lump-sum retirement benefits from the AMO Pension Plan before this popular option was ended in October 2009 as required under federal law.

Some of these nameless critics do not want lump-sum pension recipients to participate in the forthcoming AMO Defined Contribution Plan at all. Others do not want lump-sum recipients’ cumulative years of credit to count in DC Plan employer contribution calculations. Some do not want lump-sum recipients to continue working at sea."

[B]Well I guess there are nameless critics on both sides of the fence in this post now, right Mr. Hearnia? Since supporters of ychangenow are also here shall we drop the criticism of this forum and start to use it to benefit the union and membership now? [/B]

Is it true that the union is paying Hearnia 200k a year? If you have not got the buyout yet I’m sure your monthly won’t look as paltry as about 75% of the union still slaving away aboard ships [B](Don’t forget the caveat of your future monthly payment being based on 2009 dollars with NO increases to offset inflation…start drawing that pension five years from now and see how worthless it really is!)[/B]

All people are trying to get across in this forum is that the majority of the union ([B]aka guys who did not score the buyout aka[/B] [B]75% of the membership[/B]) really feel that the new system currently being suggested by the ychangenow crowd is totally leaving us in the dirt. The votes have not been cast yet so why not look at this issue again and play to the majority in the union?

Funny but in a recent posting on ychangenow Jack Hearns buyout amount was revealed to everyone, care to share the amounts other people mentioned in the posting got? To be fair you may use round numbers like you did for Jack…inquiring minds would like to know.

“A footnote: Tom Bethel, Jose Leonard, Joe Gremelsbacker and Don Cree also have qualified for and received in-service lump-sum benefits from the AMO Pension Plan. Bob Kiefer, Charles Murdock and Mike Murphy have not received lump-sum benefits from the AMO Pension Plan.”

PPS Glad to see some new voices in the forum! To my contact in Baltimore, keep spreading the news…

Right Doell. Like Jack is going to walk into Tom Bethel’s home court for a little head to head with the beloved genius? Your “invitation” is clever, and it’s nice to see you desperate already. Jack goes and he gets jumped by your handpicked shills. Jack ignores the invite and you claim he doesn’t have any answers.
Electing a group of men with integrity to rehab this union is the answer. The racketeering McKays are gone and Tom Bethel and his stooges have to go. You need to go too Paul. Go hang out with Dad.

Jack:

Charles Murdock was on to something when he asked you in Newport News if you would be willing to debate issues with me before the ballots are mailed Sept. 1. I am sure you will agree that an honest face-to-face discussion would be informative and helpful to everyone in our union.

I propose an open forum any day before you return to your vessel, and I suggest we hold this forum in the 2nd floor dining room at STAR Center in Dania Beach from 7:00 PM to 9:00 PM. The format would be simple — all AMO members in attendance would be encouraged to ask either or both of us any question on any issue.

I propose further that the debate be recorded by an independent video firm for immediate and unedited uploading to You Tube and/or to our respective campaign Web sites so that all deep-sea, Great Lakes and inland waters AMO members can view the debate in its entirety.

Our campaign is willing to cover the cost of renting the room from STAR Center and to record the event for both campaigns. You would be responsible only for the cost of transportation to and from the debate.

I look forward to our conversation — assuming, of course, that your attorney allows you to participate.

Sincerely,
Tom Bethel[/QUOTE]