Hey Mr. RespectmyAss
If you are going to quote others in your posts, can you please learn how to do it correctly? Sheesh!
& btw, count me as one non AMO member 100% behind Capt. Jack Hearn…cleaning out the deeply rooted corruption at the AMO and turning that into a real maritime union will do nothing but help ALL merchant marine officers, union and non union alike!
<O:p</O:p
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;43956] Do you hate it when you get caught with your own words? [/QUOTE]
Well Mr. Desperate not to be “dissed” I don’t feel like I have been “caught” and I fully appreciate you taking the time to reiterate the position I very much believe to be both factual and ethically responsible.
I find your attempt to discredit what I wrote kind of amusing as well. It looks like the current leadership has taught you the company line on how to answer criticism. You don’t get it either. Your lame attempt to discredit MEBA’s dispatch system comes across more as a way to convince yourself that your own unwillingness to work within a system that is both transparent and fair is not a description of your own failure. Don’t blame the system because you don’t have the strength to work within it.
Sorry to shake your little world even further but as much as I despise the damage AMO leadership has done to Americann maritime labor, it is a matter of principle, not personal gain or loss. I have a shore based management job, I don’t need to sail and will probably not have to sail again so my personal fortune doesn’t depend on sailing contracts, or my MEBA pension. I do care about my shipmates who are sailing now, including my “significant other” who is one of those “unlimited women” mentioned in another thread. I care about how labor is perceived in a country that is swinging further and further away from acknowledging the rights and needs of an American worker. I count the current and past AMO leadership among those who see the American worker as a cash cow who is not entitled to either of those things you seem to crave so much, respect and authority.
[QUOTE=Steamer;43961]Well Mr. Desperate not to be “dissed” I don’t feel like I have been “caught” and I fully appreciate you taking the time to reiterate the position I very much believe to be both factual and ethically responsible.
I find your attempt to discredit what I wrote kind of amusing as well. It looks like the current leadership has taught you the company line on how to answer criticism. You don’t get it either. Your lame attempt to discredit MEBA’s dispatch system comes across more as a way to convince yourself that your own unwillingness to work within a system that is both transparent and fair is not a description of your own failure. Don’t blame the system because you don’t have the strength to work within it.
Sorry to shake your little world even further but as much as I despise the damage AMO leadership has done to Americann maritime labor, it is a matter of principle, not personal gain or loss. I have a shore based management job, I don’t need to sail and will probably not have to sail again so my personal fortune doesn’t depend on sailing contracts, or my MEBA pension. I do care about my shipmates who are sailing now, including my “significant other” who is one of those “unlimited women” mentioned in another thread. I care about how labor is perceived in a country that is swinging further and further away from acknowledging the rights and needs of an American worker. I count the current and past AMO leadership among those who see the American worker as a cash cow who is not entitled to either of those things you seem to crave so much, respect and authority.[/QUOTE]
Mr Steaming Pile,
Do they drug test you in that office you work?
Show me where I attempted to discredit MEBA’s dispatch system. I think you may be smoking something there.
[QUOTE=c.captain;43957]Hey Mr. RespectmyAss
If you are going to quote others in your posts, can you please learn how to do it correctly? Sheesh!
& btw, count me as one non AMO member 100% behind Capt. Jack Hearn…cleaning out the deeply rooted corruption at the AMO and turning that into a real maritime union will do nothing but help ALL merchant marine officers, union and non union alike!
<O:p</O:p[/QUOTE]
Sorry Captain Jerk,
Us low-life AMO members can’t afford spell check or a dictionary.
&BTW stay out of AMO’s business. Whether it is Jack or Tom, it is the AMO member’s business as to who we elect!
Oh stop with the BS already and focus on what is at hand! Take your petty infighting to another forum if you wish to continue it. Bethel and the boys love to see useless posts added to this forum as they know your mind is being occupied by meaningless garbage and such junk turns off last minute voters who have yet to make a decision. We all need to be focused on the election and how to improve our union after the election.
I would like to see us no longer viewed as the employment agency that raced all the unions to the bottom and we can all agree that the forum has put forward some good ideas on how to make the AMO a union of equality…not a collection of haves and the majority of have nots.
Nothing at all useless or meaningless with myself or anybody else saying:
& btw, count me as one non AMO member 100% behind Capt. Jack Hearn…cleaning out the deeply rooted corruption at the AMO and turning that into a real maritime union will do nothing but help ALL merchant marine officers, union and non union alike!"
Let Bethel, Gremelsbacher, Leonard, Murdock et all see that this election is a strong referendum on what they have done to the AMO during their watch and by extension what they and the MacKay’s before them all have done to the US Merchant Marine. There is much more at stake than some contracts and a comatose pension plan. There is a truly last chance for the one “union” which has the most officers contracts on US ships to get their house free of festering rot and corruption and become a genuine strong union representing the interests of its rank and file officers towards the companies it has contracts and not against the interest of its mariners. I will be proud to become an applicant in a new Capt. Jack Hearn led AMO!
To RMA all I can say is that you can’t muzzle free speach and the right to express one’s opinion here unless you want to shut the F up yourself!
Now…good day to you sir!
Well, when I started this thread I never imagined it would grow like it has. Almost 25,000 hits.
This thread was born out of frustration and desperation. Never would I have imagined such a small group of Men(?) treat such a large group of MEN, which is the backbone of their survival this way. The stock market is not the issue, the terrible management and lousy leadership clearly is. When I problem showed it was clearly a “Get whatever I can and screw the rest mentality” that put us in this position.
The matching 401K for the administration is clearly an example of this. I would hope nobody would argue with that. Of course, there are many other examples.
Maybe the AMC cant do much with the pension, it was clearly mismanaged and abused before they will take office. But reward the drivers of the car after a mind numbing and life altering, and some say ruining “accident” is stupid. The election is upon us, I am for a complete accounting of what has been going on, and am looking forward to hearing about what is really our situation. After all, things were great until just after the last election then it was, well, you all know.
Take Care AMO
Pensionless has left the building.
[QUOTE=c.captain;43988]Nothing at all useless or meaningless with myself or anybody else saying:
Let Bethel, Gremelsbacher, Leonard, Murdock et all see that this election is a strong referendum on what [U][I]they have done[/I][/U] to the AMO during their watch and by extension what they and the MacKay’s before them all have done to the US Merchant Marine. There is much more at stake than some contracts and a comatose pension plan. There is a truly last chance for the one “union” which has the most officers contracts on US ships to get their house free of festering rot and corruption and become a genuine strong [U][I][B]union[/B][/I][/U] representing the interests of its rank and file officers [I][U]towards [/U] [/I]the companies it has contracts and not [U][I]against[/I][/U] the interest of its mariners. I will be proud to become an applicant in a new Capt. Jack Hearn led AMO!
To RMA all I can say is that you can’t muzzle free speach and the right to express one’s opinion here unless you want to shut the F up yourself!
Now…good day to you sir![/QUOTE]
The election is for AMO members in good standing to vote in. It is not for bloviating jackasses who aren’t in AMO. So you yes have a right to express your opinion but it’s value is next to nothing as you can not vote.
Hear hear, Mr. 173. I could really do without the cockfight between a disgruntled guy and someone who doesn’t even sail! I do recognize that non_AMO members have an interest in this election, being that what happens in any union will tend to have a ripple effect across the industry. But this should not be a referendum on which union is “best”. That’s a topic best suited for another forum. And I really don’t think someone who doesn’t even sail AT ALL should be weighing in so heavily.
Mr.Authority…I thought Mr. C.C. was being quite civil. Hardly what I’d call a bloviating jackass. Just accept that not everyone agrees with you.
And Mr. Pensionless, the father of this thread that’s grown a life all it’s own: happy trails to you. And if you are who I think you may be, I’m not so sure the Sox should have picked up Papi’s option.
[QUOTE=awulfclark;43998] And I really don’t think someone who doesn’t even sail AT ALL should be weighing in so heavily.[/QUOTE]
If you are referring to me, sorry to disappoint you but I am a paid up voting member of a real maritime officer’s union with a valid shipping card who can step out of a ship management office where my unlimited c/e license is a job requirement and throw in on a job tomorrow. That means I have as much right to call a spade a spade as anyone else.
The fact that I choose to use my hard earned experience in the shore side of this business doesn’t mean I can’t smell crap when it wafts through the air. You’ll have to try and find another reason to wish that the stink from your leadership wouldn’t be so offensive to people outside Dania. You and that guy begging for respect out to get together for a hug or something, you both could use some support.
Not to jab too sharp a stick in your side but isn’t there some debate about whether your “leadership” even holds licenses, much less sail or have ever sailed?
[QUOTE=awulfclark;43998]Hear hear, Mr. 173. I could really do without the cockfight between a disgruntled guy and someone who doesn’t even sail! I do recognize that non_AMO members have an interest in this election, being that what happens in any union will tend to have a ripple effect across the industry. But this should not be a referendum on which union is “best”. That’s a topic best suited for another forum. And I really don’t think someone who doesn’t even sail AT ALL should be weighing in so heavily.
Mr.Authority…I thought Mr. C.C. was being quite civil. Hardly what I’d call a bloviating jackass. Just accept that not everyone agrees with you.
And Mr. Pensionless, the father of this thread that’s grown a life all it’s own: happy trails to you. And if you are who I think you may be, I’m not so sure the Sox should have picked up Papi’s option.[/QUOTE]
May be I was a little harsh, especially the jackass part. Yes, I accept there are different points of view. I do think that sailing AMO members are more relevant in this thread than those who are not.
Believe me after all my time working in the union, I am not happy with my pension. I would like to have quit sailing by now but the market hitting the skids changed my plans. I also took a big hit on my 401K but that has come back somewhat.
And GO RED SOX! The Yankees suck! I am sure to stir the pot with that one.
[QUOTE=awulfclark;43998]Hear hear, Mr. 173. I could really do without the cockfight between a disgruntled guy and someone who doesn’t even sail! I do recognize that non_AMO members have an interest in this election, being that what happens in any union will tend to have a ripple effect across the industry. But this should not be a referendum on which union is “best”. That’s a topic best suited for another forum. And I really don’t think someone who doesn’t even sail AT ALL should be weighing in so heavily.
Mr.Authority…I thought Mr. C.C. was being quite civil. Hardly what I’d call a bloviating jackass. Just accept that not everyone agrees with you.
And Mr. Pensionless, the father of this thread that’s grown a life all it’s own: happy trails to you. And if you are who I think you may be, I’m not so sure the Sox should have picked up Papi’s option.[/QUOTE]
And just for the record, I think the Steaming pile is the the blovating jackass.
bloviating that is
My apologies, Respect. The way your post was structured, it seemed you were calling out someone else. I think we’re all frustrated with our pensions at this point–at least those who didn’t get to the rarefied air of buyout land, or who didn’t get to 20 in time. Believe me, I was looking forward to getting out at 20, with a pension, and actually seeing my kids grow up and go off to college and all that. Bye…BYE! Now they tell me I’ll have to work to 65 just to get what I would have had coming at roughly 45 under the old plan? Oh, and by the way, I’m not a particular Sox fan, but I do hate the Yankees. Trouble is, my team really sucks–not quite Orioles level sucks, but not too far off.
Mr. Steamer–I agree with your point about our leadership and their actual at-sea “experience”. As far as I know only one of the candidates has been to sea within recent memory, and that with a terrible company with shaky job security. Another one I believe came ashore in 93 or thereabouts–the “pyro”, if you will. As for the rest, I’m pretty sure they’ve been sucking on the AMO udder longer than most people go to sea. I fully agree with you that we need to flush the turds out–what’s this, our third flush now?–and start fresh. Maybe I came off a bit harsh also, but I got a little tired of the back-and-forth.
Hopefully when the AMC is voted in we can work on these issues and make things right. I’m sure it’ll take time and may involve some pain, but I dream of the day when AMO can claim to be just as good as the other two unions without a whole lot of laughing. Actually I dream of the day when there’s ONE union (preferably NOT affliliated with the SIU), but I may be done sailing by the time that comes around.
Well guys,
I think with a united AMC at the helm, not only will we have some leadership with at sea experience, but one without the weight of ‘self-entitlement’. I think you will get some
work out of those guys. People who won’t be afraid to stay at a Best Western or fly coach. Lets get everyone to get their dues paid up through the year and make their votes count.
[QUOTE=Queequeg;44062]Well guys,
I think with a united AMC at the helm, not only will we have some leadership with at sea experience, but one without the weight of ‘self-entitlement’. I think you will get some
work out of those guys. People who won’t be afraid to stay at a Best Western or fly coach. Lets get everyone to get their dues paid up through the year and make their votes count.[/QUOTE]
And once they’re elected, why not present the idea to your new AMO leaders of a merger with the MM&P, and MEBA?
It’s pretty much a no-brainer- The three organizations being united under one banner, we would be a much stronger group of licensed professional mariners against the shipping companies (they would go apeshit), thus creating great potential for increasing wage and working standards for all of us. As it stands now, the companies are very happy with the status quo of the maritime unions- fragmented and weak.
I think the AMO first needs to get their house in order. Protect themselves from a hostile takeover. Protect their remaining DB fund. And protect the union from EVER getting into this situation again. The latter can best be achieved by putting into place term limits, online or remote voting, and transparent wage negotiations.
No more backroom deals, administrative ‘Pyramiding’ compensations, luxury trips and bottomless AMO Gold cards! Enough of this nonsense! Those people should be held accountable for their actions.
And once they’re elected, why not present the idea to your new AMO leaders of a merger with the MM&P, and MEBA?
It’s pretty much a no-brainer- The three organizations being united under one banner, we would be a much stronger group of licensed professional mariners against the shipping companies (they would go apeshit), thus creating great potential for increasing wage and working standards for all of us. As it stands now, the companies are very happy with the status quo of the maritime unions- fragmented and weak.
There’s no way you can “merge” all three Unions and it’s never going to happen if there was a way. First off the MEBA is the only one of the three Unions that holds an AFL-CIO Charter, the MMP and AMO are Affiliate Unions of the ILA and SIU respectively. As far as the AMO and MEBA are concerned, we in the MEBA would LOVE to have the AMO back in as a FULL MEMBER UNION that being “District-2 MEBA AFL-CIO”. The big hurdle here would be Mike Sacco, but if the AMO Members voted for it then there wouldn’t be anything he could do about it. As far as the MMP, that’s a much thornier problem as the President of that Union now enjoys a salary of $129,046 by being a “Vice President” of the ILA in addition to his $215,321 he receives for being the MMP President. That being said I would explore the possiblity of having the MMP be perhaps District 3. The reason no one in the MEBA would want a full merger with either the MMP or the AMO is of course the state of each’s Pension Plans.
A lot of people are still feeling very burned by the MEBA raid of Interlake in 2003. That cost MEBA a two million dollar fine ! and cost us 150 jobs. Talk about bad contracts, MEBA forced a ten year deal on the Interlake guys and gave them a two-tier “training wage” contract. So you might not want to listen to what the MEBA posters have to say. They lack honor and integrity.
Unta this is a very offensive statement. It would be like me calling anyone in the AMO a scumbag. As to the Interlake deal, I can assure you that the majority of the MEBA Members are not at all happy with what transpired in that affair. Also it wasn’t a “fine” it was an out of court settlement and it was 3 not 2 million dollars.
They’re jealous that they have not developed our hiring system. They are also jealous of our training and upgrade programs . With this, I also ask the next president to distance us from the SIU to the greatest extent possible. I know we have an historic affiliation, but the SIU is not interested the well being of the AMO.
I can assure you that MEBA Members are NOT jealous of a dispatch by phone system. Our Shipping Board and Hiring Halls are the backbone of a democratic Union. The MEBA has one of if not the best Training Facilities in the country for Marine Engineers so this is a silly statement to make. Yes the BME (AMO) was originally an SIU Affiliate but that was only for 8 years, for the next 34 (approx) years it was District-2 MEBA AFL-CIO.
So you might not want to listen to what the MEBA posters have to say. They lack honor and integrity.
Unta I’m not sure if you really meant to write this quite this way or not but I really resent this kind of talk. I know I’m just a visitor to your “AMO Thread” here but we all have a dog in this fight. Painting an entire Union Membership with such a broad brush due to the actions of a few misguided officials does a great injustice to the majority of the MEBA Membership. I can assure you the vast majority of our Members are outraged over what has taken place in the past several years. I’ve read a few posts in this thread that reference Don Keefe our President and IMO they are pretty much on target. The deal with Interlake was so bizarre that you would think it was a set-up which it may have well been. But now we have a chance to get rid of our Administration and so do you guys. Hopefully Jack Hearn and Mike Jewell can set both of our Unions on a true course towards cooperation and fraternal friendship. There is nothing our Membership would like more than to see AMO back in the National MEBA as District #2 where you were for much of the AMO’s history. As the ONLY Marine Engineer Officers Union in the US we could have the sort of contracts and working conditions that we both want. (We already have the MOLA with the MMP so a full merger with them isn’t necessary.) As an equal Affiliate Union in the National you would also be free to keep whatever part of your Shipping Rules you see fit. I PRAY that this is going to come to pass starting with the vote count on Dec 6th.
U&F
Ernest Leep
MEBA Book #MC00076