Respect My Authority
You certainly do have a nasty little passive aggressive situation working there. You and your alter ego sit around on the computer in your boxers getting hammered every night and invisibly talk what you can’t walk. Face it: your petty ass got beat out of a job by a better man.
Now get your head out of that digital fantasy land and go find out what a vagina really feels like.
[QUOTE=Palmer;43826]Respect My Authority
You certainly do have a nasty little passive aggressive situation working there. You and your alter ego sit around on the computer in your boxers getting hammered every night and invisibly talk what you can’t walk. Face it: your petty ass got beat out of a job by a better man.
Now get your head out of that digital fantasy land and go find out what a vagina really feels like.[/QUOTE]
That’s me Mr. Passive Aggressive. Oh did I offend the little baby? I am sorry. I guess a pussy like you can’t handle a little dissent. Good luck Jack!
[QUOTE=Steamer;43824]How’s that working out for you guys so far?[/QUOTE]
Well, I’ll have to get back to you on that, once we actually elect someone who’s been to sea in recent memory.
WOW - I continue to be amazed by those who waste so much time on garbage like who is, was, or will be the Regimental A-hole at KP, or wherever. That was a million years ago… and as I posted before, it doesn’t matter if it is Jack who wins, or the Mad Hatter. ANYONE is better than the status quo!
As for the potential of losing contracts, lets think for a moment. Our president has a salary almost $100K higher than our competitors. Is that because the membership values his leadership so much? NO - it is because he is in bed with employer management, and THEY write the checks. As others have posted before, lousy contracts, some of which did not even pay benefits; think Dyn Marine, Lavino - too many others to list (plus I don’t know them all). How about the phoney union set up to satisfy Crowley when they bought the Delta ships and could not get stevedores to work them, due to non-union sailors onboard. So what does AMO and SIU do? Come up with a phoney union (SMU), screw their members with unheard of CRAP wages, and the music keeps playing now as we lose decent salaries and now our pensions… I know of one guy who almost lost his buyout simply because of his SMU time, which apparently did not count towards his buyout time. Now THERE is union representation for you!!
How about the mid-80’s when Ray McKay was quoted as saying “they want wage cuts?” (referring to employers), “We’ll show em wage cuts that will make their heads spin”, soon after which AMO members saw their wages whacked in some cases by 50%! NO wonder we have always been referred to as second class officers by our competition (and non-union sailors as well).
Anyone ever cut dandelions with a weed whacker in your front yard? No matter how many times you cut them down, they grow back. Bethel is like a dandelion, or any other weed. He grew up in AMO from the seeds of corruption and mistreating the membership by encouraging lousy contracts. If you do not get to the roots and remove it - it’ll just grow back. Keep Bethel in office, and the employers continue to determine what you are able to earn in order to feed your family. Yes, there is a chance of losing some contracts with legitimate negotiations - but if you are the guy working for less money than your QMED - do you care enough to work for nothing while your president laughs at you all the way to the bank? The only contracts we lose are those where the employer refuses to pay a decent wage - unless of course our competitor unions are willing to screw their memberships with low wage contracts. Lets hope not. If not our competitor unions, then where else will the employers find officers willing to work for substandard contracts??
Get real.
Either change now, or get ready to have your family sign up for food stamps, because this is probably the LAST election where AMO members will have any chance for change… The employer goons and the executive board changed the constitution to circumvent ANYONE becoming president, by using a resolution. Once they get Hearn out of the way, thus all dissention removed, what else will they change as they expedite the funding of the Pension Plan, so they can close it completely?
AMO has been run like an Employment Agency for way too long, and the only way to change that is to get rid of the dandelion weeds at the root, instead of just trimming them down…
You know who you are - those of you who obviously can’t see the forest thru the trees… It ain’t about who is running against Bethel. It is ALL about starting over with fresh blood and move on from there…
Change now!
From RMA:
“From what I have seen of old Jackie boy, he could do much worse than Tommy boy without even being aware of the damage he has done. I can see a world where we are losing contracts on a regular basis. It seems to me that is the key thing that hold everything together. As far as dissension goes, I know many people who have sailed with Jack in senior positions that have no use for him. Most people aren’t that vocal about the challenger. Most people shout the loudest against any incumbent administration. People who are neutral or have a favorable opinion of the incumbents tend to remain quiet. The same thing happened the last time around. I would guess it tends to happen quite a bit in politics.”
RMA. Don’t you think that as a company looking for a good officer union and dealing with an obvious crook or dealing with a straight-shooter with some integrity, that the latter would be the obvious choice? Why would’nt Jack be better in that department than Bethel? There won’t be any need for back room deals. Won’t be any need for payoffs. No need for MOU’s or sweetheart deals. Just good old fashioned contracts. Plus, these contracts might even be made available to the membership!
“Just to for informational purposes, most positions on ships are not filled because of reputation or ability. Most are just of convenience. People are in the right place at the right time. The office personnel are so isolated from the ships that they have no idea who or what they have out there. The office just goes around putting the latest fire out. Mostly they just need a warm body. This is not a knock on them just the way it is.”
RMA, you and I both know that it isn’t just a matter of warm body. If that were the case, you most-likely would have been sailing master long ago and wouldn’t have such a hard-on for Hearn. And in this forum, I do believe you are preaching to the choir where shipboard personnel matters are concerned. These people don’t need your schooling. But I support your right 100% to voice your opinions.
[QUOTE=Queequeg;43851]From RMA:
“From what I have seen of old Jackie boy, he could do much worse than Tommy boy without even being aware of the damage he has done. I can see a world where we are losing contracts on a regular basis. It seems to me that is the key thing that hold everything together. As far as dissension goes, I know many people who have sailed with Jack in senior positions that have no use for him. Most people aren’t that vocal about the challenger. Most people shout the loudest against any incumbent administration. People who are neutral or have a favorable opinion of the incumbents tend to remain quiet. The same thing happened the last time around. I would guess it tends to happen quite a bit in politics.”
RMA. Don’t you think that as a company looking for a good officer union and dealing with an obvious crook or dealing with a straight-shooter with some integrity, that the latter would be the obvious choice? Why would’nt Jack be better in that department than Bethel? There won’t be any need for back room deals. Won’t be any need for payoffs. No need for MOU’s or sweetheart deals. Just good old fashioned contracts. Plus, these contracts might even be made available to the membership!
“Just to for informational purposes, most positions on ships are not filled because of reputation or ability. Most are just of convenience. People are in the right place at the right time. The office personnel are so isolated from the ships that they have no idea who or what they have out there. The office just goes around putting the latest fire out. Mostly they just need a warm body. This is not a knock on them just the way it is.”
RMA, you and I both know that it isn’t just a matter of warm body. If that were the case, you most-likely would have been sailing master long ago and wouldn’t have such a hard-on for Hearn. And in this forum, I do believe you are preaching to the choir where shipboard personnel matters are concerned. These people don’t need your schooling. But I support your right 100% to voice your opinions.[/QUOTE]
It isn’t a matter of a warm body to us on the ship but to the office it unfortunately is very often a matter of just getting somebody to fill the spot. Most office human resource/personnel people are very removed from the ship. They really don’t interact with ship personnel that frequently. They may email or talk to someone over the phone but that isn’t the same as working side by side on a daily basis. Yes there are evaluations that are sent in but most of them aren’t worth the paper they are printed on. So because of these things, they don’t really know the people they have on their ships. It would be nice if jobs where more based on reputation but this business doesn’t usually work that way.
<O:p</O:p
I have sailed in the top slot. Unfortunately for my pension, my high three were outside of my last ten prior to the 2009 cutoff. Also the company I was sailing in that position has been out of business for a long time. I have been in the top spot in the past year and gave up that job. I am on a different job now and I am happy not sailing in the top slot. Frankly with what has been done with the pension, I don’t see the point of sailing in the top spots any more. It works out the captain or chief get a little more pay but a whole lot more aggravation. It used to be if you did your high three as captain or chief, you could double your pension. That isn’t the case anymore. Down the road I expect the membership will figure that out. I already see master’s and chief’s jobs on the dispatch site. That seems to be a recent thing to me.
From my experience sailing with the one you think is “a-straight-shooter with integrity”, I didn’t see it from him. I don’t know what your experience is with him. Other people tend to see what they want to see. They say if this guy is crap, well the other guy must be better. I don’t see things that way. You think he will be the union’s savior and I don’t. I don’t see you changing my mind with anything that you could write here. I don’t see me changing your mind with anything that I could write here. I am guessing that is your opinion too. Whatever it is, you are entitled to it.<O:p</O:p
P.S. [B]Queequeg[/B]
I sailed with a very bright captain many years ago who told me “Any idiot can be captain, look at me, but a good chief mate is very hard to find”.
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;43860]P.S. [B]Queequeg[/B]
I sailed with a very bright captain many years ago who told me “Any idiot can be captain, look at me, but a good chief mate is very hard to find”.[/QUOTe
I agree that you are as good as your weekest link, whomever that might be. Right now, AMO’s weekest link happens to be
Tom Bethel. We must change that.
Back in the U.S. for a few days. As much as I tried, I could not stay away from this site. I think I’ve put more thought into this vote than I put into my second wife !
First, brother Steamer, IBM, Best Buy and most other successful companies go straight to their marketing people for leadership, they bring in the cash.
Also I see that someone brought up religion in one post. Come on , we are not hiring a minister here. Maybe the new building can be retro fitted with stained glass windows.
It seems that some of these posts are coming from some of our non AMO brothers and sisters. You can believe that the other unions will be chomping at the bit to get some of the “lousy” contracts that AMO now has. Believe me, as the war winds down and the politics in D.C, heat up with the new congress, every job will become more valuable. More jobs means faster DB rebuilding which will benefit all of us. MEBA and MMP need those jobs to keep their plans floating. I would rather see them with AMO. We shouldn’t let our egos run wild, be practical.
I agree that Mr. Bethel is over paid he should agree to a pay decrease until the pension is straightened out. In any case Mr. Hearn is asking us to invest over one million dollars plus expenses, in his OJT, not a good investment.
I have no idea what Mr. Hearn is about, except for the canned “transparency” remarks. I have no idea who is behind the AMC curtain controlling the keyboard. Several poster have defended Mr. Hearns refusal to debate. I feel that if he wanted to present his case he could have taken a couple of weeks off and debated Mr. Bethel. Apparently Mr. Hearn feels that we should just trust that he will do the right thing and adopt the correct policies. He is apparently unwilling to invest his time in presenting himself to those of us who don’t know him. Personally I am insulted by this. I feel that he probably felt that he could not stand beside Mr. Bethel and present his case. Maybe he really does not know how the union operates. Over a million dollars, plus expenses. for OJT ! think about it. At least I know what Mr. Bethel is about. Good and bad. To Mr. Hearn’s supporters he owes you a a great debt. You have defended him well.
Keep in mind that the AMC slate held two of the top three positions in our union, after the special election, in 2008. I sure didn’t hear any screaming from their office holders about the pension, pay scales, and transparency. One guy took his buy-out and quit and the other is serving quietly while also doing very well financially. These are Mr. Hearn’s people, not Mr. Bethel"s.
I talked to a friend who worked on the Great Lakes. The contracts are going to expire next year ( they all renew together). Those members are very concerned about having an inexperienced group negotiating the pattern contract . They are not happy with the AMC candidate for the Great Lakes Vice-President. A lot of people are still feeling very burned by the MEBA raid of Interlake in 2003. That cost MEBA a two million dollar fine ! and cost us 150 jobs. Talk about bad contracts, MEBA forced a ten year deal on the Interlake guys and gave them a two-tier “training wage” contract. So you might not want to listen to what the MEBA posters have to say. They lack honor and integrity.
This new Congress will sell our jobs down the drain. They oppose cargo preferences, they hate unions, and they despise the Jones Act. The shipping companies will have many friendly ears to bend. Money, Money, Money ! We may not be able to afford Mr. Bethel but I KNOW that we can’t afford a politically inexperienced leader right now. I wish Mr. Hearn would have come forward and presented himself to us. I would like to have seen what kind of fight he has in him. I don’t think it was a lot to ask.
One more thing. Brothers and sisters AMO is a UNION. You should feel bitter and insulted by anyone who says otherwise. I have shipped out of NMU, SIU, MEBA and MMP halls on both coasts. It is a lousy way to work. The best amenity they can offer is yesterday’s newspaper, or a chess set that is missing a couple of pieces ! Spend a week in a crappy motel traveling back and forth to the hall everyday! Their dispatchers don’t care one bit about the members waiting for work. Hang out for a week, run out of money. eat crappy food, get constipated, get frustrated, and then head home. The next day someone fresh off the street walks in and gets the job. That’s the way it works. It’s happened to me. more than once.
I think you will agree that our dispatch system is far better and less expensive, than anything the other “unions’” have come up with. I appreciate the fact that I can receive a phone call and leave for work from my home. Our dispatchers have always been fair to me, especially in the past few years. That’s all I can expect. For the most part I have been treated more professionally by AMO than the other “unions”. I think that that the last few years have seen major improvement. They’re jealous that they have not developed our hiring system. They are also jealous of our training and upgrade programs . With this, I also ask the next president to distance us from the SIU to the greatest extent possible. I know we have an historic affiliation, but the SIU is not interested the well being of the AMO. Enough is enough!
I said in my first post that I would not vote for anyone who refuses to debate. I’m sticking by it. I am also a ticket splitter, always have been.
Keep the pressure on whoever wins this. And please Mr. Hearn and Mr. Bethel, no more lawsuits. They have torn us apart and cost us a lot of dollars and dignity. We need and deservr better from you.
Thanks for reading .
Safe sailing
VOTE
[QUOTE=Unta;43906]The next day someone fresh off the street walks in and gets the job. That’s the way it works. It’s happened to me. more than once.[/QUOTE]
If you lived near a hall you wouldn’t have that problem. If you paid attention to what ships are coming in where and when and knew how to figure out your place in the pecking order you wouldn’t have missed the boat.
If you choose to live too far from a hall to participate comfortably in a truly transparent, fair, and legitimate union hiring practice, don’t blame the process, take responsibility for your own choices.
[QUOTE=Steamer;43910]If you lived near a hall you wouldn’t have that problem. If you paid attention to what ships are coming in where and when and knew how to figure out your place in the pecking order you wouldn’t have missed the boat.
If you choose to live too far from a hall to participate comfortably in a truly transparent, fair, and legitimate union hiring practice, don’t blame the process, take responsibility for your own choices.[/QUOTE]
Brother Steamer
Thank You for the advice. I think I’ll uproot the family and move to one of your chosen locations. AMO has made use of a wonderful invention, The Telephone we also have used the internet. Give it a try. AMO has WORLDWIDE SHIPPING.
I encourage new people to try our system, then make a decision. I think that they will find that the $2.00 per day pay difference is offset by the convenience of shipping from home.
Transparency ! what an overused joke this term is becoming. Don’t tell me that the dispatchers are “fair and balanced”. Save that for new people. Anyone who believes that they are making more money by wasting long hours and days driving and sitting at the hall can’t do math. Time is valuable, especially for sailors. I have chosen not to waste mine.
Why should I waste my time worrying about ship schedules ? That is the Unions job. It dosen’t sound like your folks are getting very good service.
This is modern day America. I can live anywhere and still sail. That is why I chose to be a proud member of AMO. We know the value of a fairly normal family life uninterrupted by daily trips to the hall.
WE have our problems, this is true but so do the other guys. AMO is still a better Union, give it a try.
By the way. Pick up a paper on your way to the hall today. I’ll get my news off the WORLDWIDE WEB.
Safe Sailing
So how’s that SIU controlled employment agency transparency thing working for the majority of your shipmates? I have no doubt that a handful of yes men and sycophants do quite well at the expense of others.
My colleagues live and work all over the world and have no problems shipping out, we know where each member stands and where they stand. I know where my name is on the shipping list and I know I can’t be skipped over by some claim that the phone didn’t work.
Are you trying to convince me or yourself?
Yeah right. Like there has never been any back door shipping with old style union hall shipping. No, money in envelopes has never been passed in a union hall for jobs.
Although I like the AMO way better, both types of union halls can lead to corruption. Whenever you have people assigning other people jobs, there is always an opportunity for an underhanded deal to happen.
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;43921]Yeah right. Like there has never been any back door shipping with old style union hall shipping. No, money in envelopes has never been passed in a union hall for jobs. [/QUOTE]
All the money in the world and the most corrupt dispatcher can’t change the outcome when all the shipping cards are on the counter and everyone knows where they are compared to the others. When everyone knows what time on what day you registered, the job is on the board and the competition is standing next to you there isn’t any room for employment agency scams or fraud.
Nice try though. Good luck with that faith based dispatch thing. I hope it works better for you than the trust based pension scheme.
Mr. Steamer
Why do you bother posting here as it is obvious that you are not an AMO member? You seem to hate AMO with a passion so I assume you would never have anything to do with AMO. I have no idea how the other unions ar run and I really don’t care how the other unions are run. It is also pretty obvious that you have no idea how AMO is run.
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;43942]Why do you bother posting here as it is obvious that you are not an AMO member?[/QUOTE]
Because MEBA was brought up by an AMO member as a comparison. Because AMO lowballing has cost American mariners a fortune by cheapening the currency. Because AMO practices and well publicized history of criminal activities and convictions has smeared the reputation of American labor. When you use my leadership as an example for some point you wish to make, don’t get your knickers all twisted when I return the favor.
I don’t have a beef with any AMO rank and file member. But you are right, I do hate what AMO has come to stand for. It has become the poster child for anti union arguments across the spectrum of organized labor.
And you are also right that I don’t need to bother posting that sort of thing here. After all, the stuff I mention is what this thread is about anyway, and it appears that more of your members than the current leadership cares to admit feel pretty much the same way.
I didn’t see a reference to MEBA. I did see something about “other unions” as a comparsion. I am sure my knickers aren’t all twisted. It does sound like your panties may be in a bunch though. Your hatred of AMO comes through loud and clear.
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;43948] Your hatred of AMO comes through loud and clear.[/QUOTE]
If that is what you need to hear …
To be honest though, dear seeker of respect, I could hardly care any less about you or your “union” much less waste my time “hating” something that has so little impact on my present or future.
[QUOTE=Steamer;43951]If that is what you need to hear …
To be honest though, dear seeker of respect, I could hardly care any less about you or your “union” much less waste my time “hating” something that has so little impact on my present or future.[/QUOTE]
Because MEBA was brought up by an AMO member as a comparison. Because AMO lowballing has cost American mariners a fortune by cheapening the currency. Because AMO practices and well publicized history of criminal activities and convictions has smeared the reputation of American labor. When you use my leadership as an example for some point you wish to make, don’t get your knickers all twisted when I return the favor.
I don’t have a beef with any AMO rank and file member. But you are right, I do hate what AMO has come to stand for. It has become the poster child for anti union arguments across the spectrum of organized labor.
So Steamer,
From your posts above, do you see why someone would have trouble believing anything that you say.
Yeah you care less about AMO as it has nothing to do with your future. Do you hate it when you get caught with your own words?
And also from Steamer…
<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml” /><v:shape style=“WIDTH: 13.5pt; HEIGHT: 8.25pt; VISIBILITY: visible; mso-wrap-style: square” id=Picture_x0020_2 alt=“Quote” type="#_x0000_t75" o:spid="_x0000_i1028"><v:imagedata o:title=“Quote” src=“file:///C:\DOCUME~1\JopeF\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.png”></v:imagedata></v:shape>Originally Posted by [B]Wardn145[/B]<O:p</O:p
[I]I sent in my new applicant paperwork to AMO … what I should expect next?<O:p</O:p[/I]
have you been reading the AMO pension thread on this site? Is that what you want to involve yourself in? Life is too short to waste time and money on “leadership” like that.
If I were you I would look at the real maritime unions.
But, that point aside, I certainly agree with you that AMO has never been anything more than an employment scam designed to convert “dues” to political contributions and create great personal wealth for a select few. And as a member of a legitimate maritime officer’s union that suffers from the impact of lowball AMO contracts, I do have a right to an opinion on how those contracts negatively effect me.
Good luck, I hope you guys can throw the scum back in the gutter where they belong. <O:p</O:p