Good afternoon folks, i currently hold a C/E limited oceans and C/E OSV. At this time im working on a smaller research vessel out on the west coast. I do enjoy the research vessels and i hope that this job leads to other research vessel opportunities. Before recently i was content with my C/E limited oceans / C/E OSV but it seems like to me that more and more companies want unlimited personnel on their vessels.
I decided to start looking into getting my 1st A/E unlimited but i also want to keep my C/E limited and C/E OSV. My question is that is there a agency or something that can give me advice and help me get my paper work together to apply for a 1st A/E ? And what is the difference between National and STCW officers? im positive that this is a dumb question from someone who has been in this industry for over 25 years so i apologize. Any info you can give me would be helpful . Thanks
I held a 1AE & a Chief Limited for a long time & they both stayed on my license/book even through renewals. From talking with co-workers & friends/former co-workers, it is my understanding you don’t have to test anymore for the 1AE, they just give it to you if you ask if you hold a Chief Limited. Once/if you upgrade from 1AE to Chief Unlimited the Chief Limited will disappear from your license or whatever they call that origami thing they give you now. I work with some young academy grads who moved up from 2AE to 1AE recently & they had to test plus take some of those Gap Closing coures that we all had to take '15-'17. So maybe you’ll have to take MEECE, ER Management etc.?
IMO, don’t do any of this if you need to renew. Renew first then try to upgrade. Don’t let an upgrade stall a renewal. Those people at NMC can screw up the most simplest of renewals. Throwing an upgrade with questions in there with a renewal could cause them to revoke your license & ban you from sailing.
Hey thanks Sand_Pebble! I just got my renewed MMC about 2 weeks ago so that part is done. I took MEECE, ER Management and all that good stuff back in 2015 or something. Ive had my C/E limited oceans about 4 years now. Can you recommend a good MMC consultant?
I can’t help you there. I had almost every engineering license from DDE4k to CE unlimited, (no fishing or 3AE) but never used a paid consultant. I always started my next license hunt with one of these things & the old part 1-40 CFR before then. I would have used Holly Chetta if I needed one but she passed away a while back.
I went the same route as you are asking, except I sat for 3rd Assistant Engineer at the same time I sat for Chief Limited. After enough sea time, I applied and was given the 2nd Assistant, and ultimately had to take a test for 1st Assistant Engineer Unlimited. I would be very surprised if the USCG just handed that license to a lower license holder now. You can double check all the requirements necessary on the National Maritime Center’s website. As requirements are ever evolving, someone who went your path previously could be explaining how they did it and was correct, but now requirements could have changed.
Also on the NMC’s website, there is a checklist breakdown of all requirements for your national endorsement (license) and the required STCW (OICEW).
Once successfully getting your 1st Assistant Eng. You will have to sail as a 1st for a required amount of time (again on the NMC website) before being able to upgrade to Chief Engineer Unlimited.
Mr. Cadavo might chime in on this thread as well, given he’s the resident licensing expert here.
Thank you! i would be surprised too! From my understanding i can hold my C/E limited oceans for a year and sit to test for 1st A/E unlimited. So i got that going for me.
I had to test for 2AE from CE Limited then again for 1AE. The seatime requirement for me a couple of years ago for CE Ulmt was 1 year sailing as 1AE or 6m sailing as 1AE with 1yr sailing as 2AE. I too was surprised when I heard nmc was handing out no-test 1AE’s like hotcakes for anyone with a CE Limited under their belt. I heard that from a few people.
That would be awesome but i doubt i will get that lucky. NMC has never given me anything. Ive heard for years that you can get a DDE unlimited endorsement on your DDE 4000. Ive never actually seen someone hold a DDE 4000 with a unlimited endorsement. My first license was DDE unlimited/Chief OSV. I got my C/E limited about 4 0r 5 years ago and i had to test.
Without thinking too hard, for me, I recall getting the CE OSV no test when it was brand new. I was grandfathered in for ship security officer, no course, no test. I just had to get an assessment signed for ETO. I was working CE on a FOC high voltage diesel electric vessel & my relief & I would spend 15-30 minutes each crew change signing each others assessment books off because we thought it would be too weird having a foreign, 1AE license holder signing our books. It was silly demonstrating basic skills while being the chief of the vessel but ETO is in my book now with no test.
The only licensing question there is the difference between STCW and national.
They are separate, but you must hold a corresponding national endorsement to get an STCW endorsement. [46 CFR 11.201(a)]. This is one way, you can get the national without the STCW. You need the national on all vessels regardless of where they operate. You also need STCW in addition to the national endorsement if you will be on a vessel operating internationally or on any voyage (including domestic) outside the boundary line.
If you do not currently have any STCW endorsements, you are going to need a LOT of courses and practical assessments for the STCW endorsement as “second engineer officer” (the STCW equivalent of 1st AE). You need to meet all of the requirements for BOTH “officer in charge of an engineering watch” and also for 2EO/Chief Engineer.
If you had not heard of STCW until now, you may take benefit of a licensing consultant, if only to advise you of the large amount of time and $$$ its going to take to get the STCW endorsement so you can assess if you want to pursue that. But note that other than the Great Lakes where STCW is not required, you may find there is limited options for 1st AE without STCW.
@Harpoon454 , So from my reading of it, “(c) The following officer endorsements do not require examinations:” & “Chief Engineer-Limited to service on steam, motor, or gas turbine-propelled vessels of less than 10,000 HP/7,500 kW on near-coastal routes, provided the applicant has already been examined at the management level.”,. A mariner holding a license of Chief Engineer limited would not need to test to obtain a 1AE?? I texted a friend a couple hours ago & he repeated to me again he didn’t have to test to get a 1AE from Chief Limited about a year ago. If I didn’t have mine already I’d jump on that in case uscg changes their mind if they haven’t already.
Thanks for that info! Im talking to a consultant now. He mentioned the exam. Im going to ask him if there is a possible loop hole but if i have to test then so be it. I really want to obtain my 1st A/E so if i have to test then Mandeville, Louisiana here i come.
Thanks for the advice! I took all the gap closing classes back in 2015 or something. It was 3 classes. MEECE, ER Management and one other. My MMC capacity page says its in accordance with the provisions of regulations III/1; III/2; III/3; III/4; III/5; VI/1; VI/2; VI/3; VI/4; VI/6
I never held a 3rd or 2nd assistant. Started as a DDE, upgraded to chief limited then a year later or thereabouts sat for the 1st assistant test back in '20 or '21.
That’s great if no test is required anymore, but even if you have to test, i will say ironically the 1st assistant exam was the easiest exam i took out of all the other ones i did over the years.
I’ll add too that i was issued second engineer on my stcw at the time of the 1st assistant issuance but when I renewed i was able to get chief unlimited, and from what I was told that was why the second engineer disappeared on my latest issue.
Sounds like you pretty much took the same path im trying to take. I went from O/S with just a Z-card then QMED oiler then i went straight to DDE unlimited/C/E OSV and on to C/E limited. My MMC still has the DDE unlimited/C/E OSV along with my C/E limited oceans. Honestly i thought my C/E limited exams were easy. I studied for around 2 months for my C/E limited. Just about the time i was ready to test COVID-19 showed up and they closed the Mandeville REC for a little over a month if i remember. I had to keep studying until they opened back up because i was afraid i would forget a lot . So once they finally opened the REC i went into test and breezed through all 4 exams back to back like it was nothing. No pressure at all not because I’m actually smart but because i had been studying those same questions pretty much every day for almost 4 months LOL. I got my C/E limited because i wanted to go to large ocean tugs. I kept hearing that the DDE unlimited/ C/E OSV wont work on the ocean going tugs. I was getting really burnt out on the OSV’s and it was time for a change.
I do understand that i should have a better understanding of how all this works especially for being in the industry since November of 1999. I really do appreciate all of you guys advice and thanks for not making me feel like too big of a dumb ass. lol
Congratulations on that! This maritime forum is cool for a lot of reasons & one of them is watching the trails & tribulations of fellow mariners as they climb the uscg licensing ladder over the years. Well, I guess in your case climb 2 ladders & jump back and forth between. When I finally obtained my CE unlimited I was happy to know I should never have to walk into another REC to test. What about you @Ctony? Since you have the largest ER license are you going to try for the top of the other ladder now?