[QUOTE=powerabout;136027]I think the real scam for you guys is the USCG wont let you do any other flag states courses as part of your license.
Yet STCW-95 is meant to be a level playing field?
Other countries have no issue with that at all.[/QUOTE]
You are absolutely right. The USCG should allow foreign STCW training. I have taken some foreign courses (not STCW) and it is much more serious and higher quality training. Its also interesting to see how things are done elsewhere.
[QUOTE=Wave;136015]Are cadets at the academies grandfathered in as well if they started there sea time prior to 3/14?[/QUOTE]
They’re not grandfathered for anything but 3rd Mate. 2nd Mate requires that your time be while holding 3rd Mate, so you can’t begin service for 2nd Mate if you don’t have 3rd Mate. Same for Chief Mate, you have to have service while holding 2nd Mate.
Cadets at academies do not get their 3rd’s endorsements by acquiring sea service. They get it by completing an approved training program. The terms of the approval to the academies, and the STCW, require that while in the program, cadets receive a minimum of oine year of shipboard training (not just sea time, if you are not onboard as a trainee/cadet it doesn’t count).
The grandfathering also applies if you began training before March 24, 2014, but for cadets the critical date is at the other end of the grandfathering period, grandfathering ends January 1, 2017 and cadets have to receive their endorsements by that date. Anyone getting their endorsements after that date, regardless of when they started at the academy, e.g. if you enter with the class of 2016, but don’t graduate and get your endorsements until Spring 2017, you will have to meet all of the new requirements.
What??? What a nice f-ing fix this is!!!
The point was that you, we and they need to write letters to the committee. I have written 4 letters over the last 5 years on 4 different topics. How many letters have you written? Any? That's my point. Yeah, due to my advanced age and old timers I misspoke the correct name of the committee. Shoot me. But by all means write letters. The only info the committee hears is from the blue suits, industry, and the schools. They all push their own agenda. AMO, MMP and SIU generally only get involved when it concerns manning issues. These committees hear from NOT one of us as individual mariners. Some people have mentioned the cost. I guarantee NONE of the committee members heard ONE complaint about this (from the individual mariners POV).
[QUOTE=cappy208;136072]The point was that you, we and they need to write letters to the committee. I have written 4 letters over the last 5 years on 4 different topics. How many letters have you written? Any? That’s my point. Yeah, due to my advanced age and old timers I misspoke the correct name of the committee. Shoot me. But by all means write letters. The only info the committee hears is from the blue suits, industry, and the schools. They all push their own agenda. AMO, MMP and SIU generally only get involved when it concerns manning issues. These committees hear from NOT one of us as individual mariners. Some people have mentioned the cost. I guarantee NONE of the committee members heard ONE complaint about this (from the individual mariners POV).[/QUOTE]
I agree that mariners need to be more politically active.
I know my Congressman on a first name basis and support his reelection.
MEBA use to have huge lobbying effort, one of the largest, and do a good job of representing its members. But I am behind the times on what MEBA is doing now. Apparently, not much.
Training requirements, the gift that keeps on giving; it’s worse than a case of the clap.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;135603]Courses are also required for an STCW endorsement for Master 500 GT to 3,000 GT. The courses are not required for this or the “unlimited” endorsement if you began service for the endorsement before March 24, 2014 and you apply before January 1, 2017.
There are requirements in order for an engineer STCW endorsement to be valid after December 31, 2016, even if you started service before March 24, 2014.
If you are grandfathered by having service before 3/24/2014 and you get the endorsement before 1/1/2017, you will not have to take the ship handling, meteorology, or stability courses to be valid after 12/31/2016. Also, if you were grandfathered and got a chief mate endorsement before 1/1/2017 you won’t need these courses to upgrade to master for the same tonnage.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=jdcavo;135603]Courses are also required for an STCW endorsement for Master 500 GT to 3,000 GT. The courses are not required for this or the “unlimited” endorsement if you began service for the endorsement before March 24, 2014 and you apply before January 1, 2017.
“…began service for the endorsement” . Does this mean that you had to begin taking classes before March 24, 2014, or that your sea service towards the endorsement began before that date?
Its all about when you started in the business, first day of sea-time.
That’s what I wanted to hear, thanks!
Could be wrong of course but I don’t see how they could not count sea time before a certain date EXCEPT for if, for example, you needed ALL the sea time to be over 100 tons for that endorsement and only had 90 ton time before then… So don’t take what I said as official of course but in my mind would be the only way or wouldn’t count.
[QUOTE=TMcG;137047]"…began service for the endorsement" . Does this mean that you had to begin taking classes before March 24, 2014, or that your sea service towards the endorsement began before that date?[/QUOTE]
From the Grandfathering NVIC (02-14):
“A mariner will be considered to have started service on the first day of their service that meets the requirements for the endorsement for which they have applied. Training is considered to have started on the first day of a period of training used to qualify for an endorsement.”
[QUOTE=z-drive;137051]Its all about when you started in the business, first day of sea-time.[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily, it depends on what endorsement you are applying for and the specific sea service requirements for that endorsement. It’s the first day of the time needed to get the endorsement. For example, 2nd Mate requires sea service while holding 3rd Mate, so for 2nd Mate, you cannot have begun your service before you obtained 3rd Mate.
My 200 ton NC Mate says not valid after Dec 2016. There must be some class they want me to take. I guess it doesn’t fall under the Grandfathering.
Mr Cavo,
Looking at the new checklists for upgrading license, i do not see the requirement to re-do the flashing light. Is Flashing light no longer required for deck officer upgrades?
Thanks
[QUOTE=seriously;137088]My 200 ton NC Mate says not valid after Dec 2016. There must be some class they want me to take. I guess it doesn’t fall under the Grandfathering.[/QUOTE]\
It’s proibably on yopur STCW endorsement, and if so, there are courses you need to be valid after December 31, 2016. See the grandfathering NVIC at http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvic/pdf/2014/nvic-02-14_Grandfathering_final_with_encls_20140122.pdf
This example is confusing considering that the “if service started after” verbiage only shows up on the STCW endorsement checklists. If you apply your logic to the STCW Master >3000 this means that if you are issued a STCW Chief Mate > 3000 after March 24, 2014 then you can’t upgrade to Master until you complete all of the advanced courses listed?
[QUOTE=KeysBum7229;137146]…If you apply your logic to the STCW Master >3000 this means that if you are issued a STCW Chief Mate > 3000 after March 24, 2014 then you can’t upgrade to Master until you complete all of the advanced courses listed?[/QUOTE]
Did you read the NVIC??? Maybe you should before you ask your questions. Hint, you might find something in Para 2.c of Encl 1.
I’ll make it even easier for you, here’s a link to the enclosure: http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/regulations/NVIC/NVIC_2014/nvic_10-14_master_and_chief_mate_3000_gt_or_more-encl-1.pdf
For everyone else, the short answer is that KeysBurnOs interpretation is wrong, the courses would not be needed in the hypothetical
I prefaced my question by saying that it was your logic not mine.
By the way it’s during working hours shouldn’t you be evaluating applications?
[QUOTE=KeysBum7229;137150]…By the way it’s during working hours shouldn’t you be evaluating applications?[/QUOTE]
KeysBum, aren’t you the same guy who specifically requested Mr. Cavo’s advice in another thread? e.g. “Mr. Cavo, Can you please weigh in on the one time use of the old system…”
Wouldn’t it be easier and more manly to accept the answer you are given rather than post snippy replies, especially when Mr. Cavo goes out of his way to help you and everyone else in this forum with his informed, considered responses?
Not to mention, it seems fairly obvious that he is several pay grades above evaluating your application, and probably had a hand in establishing the policy that you are having a hard time with.
[QUOTE=KeysBum7229;137150]I prefaced my question by saying that it was your logic not mine.
By the way it’s during working hours shouldn’t you be evaluating applications?[/QUOTE]
In addition to not reading NVICs, you didn’t even read my signature/line. I don’t work at NMC, and even when I did, I didn’t evaluate appliications. I work in CG HQ developing policy, like NVICs. As far as posting during work hours, it’s part of my job. My last performance plan included “povide responses to inquiries from the public and maritime industry.”
I occasionally post on my own time. See 3:30 of the video embedded here: http://www.gcaptain.com/forum/maritime-training-licensing/14692-stcw-nvics-2.html#post137044
Yeah go ahead and piss the policy setter off, who really honestly goes out of the way to answer a lot of really stupid questions on here.