12pak charter on an UPV

Hi folks. I am currently have a 100ton N/C license and operate a vessel of 109gt for recreation use only (yes this is legal). The owner wants to do charters and the vessel qualifies for up to 12 passengers. An evaluator told me I should be fine chartering because it fits in the realm of “appropriate” license, especially since I carry 20-25 people out on it all the time, again, non-paying/recreation only. However, a USCG official had stated I cannot charter simply because of tonnage. Now, I was looking at the CFR’s and I came across 46 CFR 15.605(b) which states “Every uninspected passenger vessel of 100 gross tons or more, as defined by 46 U.S.C. 2101(42)(A), must be under the direction and control of a licensed master, pilot, or mate as appropriate.”

Does this mean that if I obtain the 200ton Mate N/C, which I do qualify for now, I can charter up to 12 uninspected?

Thanks…

CFR’s are just suggestions anyways. Go right ahead and charter your heart out.

By that cite, do you mean operate it as a Mate (with no other licensed onboard)? No must be a licensed Master onboard.

See the licensing section of the following:

http://www.uscg.mil/pvs/docs/UPV_GUIDEBOOK_Over100GTCMDT2014.pdf

The last sentence where it’s says “…as appropriate.” Means you have to have the correct manning structure. You need a 200T Master.

If you have enough time and tonnage, I don’t remember how many days above whatever tonnage are required, you can get a 150 ton master along with a 200 ton mate if your sea time falls short of the 200 ton master requirements…once you do the five day course and/ or test.

A 109GT inspected vessel requires a master of MORE than 100GT. Pretty cut and dry.

Being that your already a licensed master you should be familiar with manning requirements as per the CFR. Just my .02

[QUOTE=cwneblett;168279]Hi folks. I am currently have a 100ton N/C license and operate a vessel of 109gt for recreation use only (yes this is legal). [/QUOTE]

Perhaps you are confusing owning the boat and driving it yourself (for recreation) as opposed to being paid to Captain it.

Now you want to charter? I suggest letting the insurance company know first…

The boat not having a GRT that is causing the problems, as the 100 Ton license does not have a corresponding Gross Tonnage. That doesn’t start until one gets a 200 GRT /500 GT license.

Plenty of vessels built that over 1000 GT but are still under 100 GRT.

You could possibly get a GRT for the vessel but I have no idea how that’s done and the cost associated with it. Probably easier to get your 200 GRT and ask for the STCW II/3 500 GT, looking at the checklist things have been redone that allow one to move right from 100 ton master to 200 ton master with sea time over 67 GRT. Even if you sea time is just on this vessel the CG should approve it as long as approved manning levels where maintained. There is a policy letter that goes over this. I would do this now before the window closes and you have to take all the STCW classes to get your 500 GT.

[QUOTE=cwneblett;168279]…An evaluator told me I should be fine chartering …[/QUOTE]

Who is this “evaluator”? Do you mean a MMC application evaluator at the National Maritime Center? They have little if any experience in this issue and should not be advising on it. I would ask the Coast Guard Marine Safety Office for the area you will propose to operate in. Since the vessel is over 100 GRT, it is likely to be considered a “T-Boat” or small passenger vessel and may need to be inspected.

Whether YOU can operate on a charter is easy. Depending on when it was issued, a “100 Ton” endorsement is either for not more than 100 GRT, or for less than 100 GRT. Either way, you can’t work on it with a “100 Ton” license.

let’s clarify a few things here

no vessel of greater than 5 net tons can operate in any domestic trade unless it is documented with a coastwise trade endorsement. Foreign built vessels of equal to or greater than 100grt can be issued an Administrative waiver to give it coastwise trade permissions but an application to get that endorsement must be made with MarAd.

if the vessel operates underway for greater than 16hours then it must have two licensed operators with licenses of equal to or greater than the vessels gross tonnage. If inshore of the baseline, then inland endorsed licenses are ok, but if offshore of the baseline then the licenses held must be at least near coastal, if outside of 200miles then they must be ocean endorsed.

if the 109grt vessel carries greater than 12 passengers if even one is paying for the charter, then the vessel must be inspected as a subchapter H passenger vessel, if it were under 100grt, then it must be inspected as a subchapter K or T passenger vessel with 13 or more persons aboard in addition to the crew.

I am not going to touch whether the vessel is admeasured under regulatory tonnage regulations or ITC regulations. I am only going to assume it is regulatory for the purposes of this thread and that it will not trade on an international voyage.

It was not been mentioned by the OP in this thread that the vessel has a COI.

My understanding of the CFR’s are that a vessel carrying more than 6 passengers for hire must be an inspected vessel.

Did the USCG and Congress change this rule?

The OP needs a Masters license appropriate for the tonnage of the vessel, and route if he is carrying 12 passengers for hire.

As it’s been stated, if the vessel is over 100 GT and inspected it needs to be inspected under Sub. H. Under 100 GT it can be T or K depending on how many passengers. If it’s under 100 GT and carrying six or fewer passengers it can be a UPV. This is all found in applicability of the CFR’s. The piece that is missed by many (including some USCG inspectors) is the Passenger Vessel Safety Act…

If you own a vessel and you are operating it as a rec boat you can take the 20-25 people you say you take. If your vessel is over 100 GT you may carry 12 paying passengers with a crew provided and still be a UPV. This is your 12 pack. If you rent the boat to somebody else as a bareboat charter they can only take 12 people to stay in the rec boat realm (that’s 12 people; if they want to pay somebody to drive the boat for them that person counts as part of the 12 people).

So, if you want to carry 12 people it sounds like you are better off being over 100 GT. If you are under 100 GT you leave the UPV realm with the 7th passenger vice the 13th. The 12 people on the bareboat still applies if you are under 100 GT.

This information can be found in NVIC 7-94 at http://www.uscg.mil/pvs/docs/PVSA_NVIC_7-94.pdf. As always, it’s best to check with your OCMI (and get something in writing if possible; even an email from an inspector) if you have any doubt.

[QUOTE=dmc;168375]My understanding of the CFR’s are that a vessel carrying more than 6 passengers for hire must be an inspected vessel.

Did the USCG and Congress change this rule? [/QUOTE]

the 1993 Passenger Vessel Safety Actadded a new group of uninspected passenger vessel. Vessels of at least 100gt but less then 300gt were given permission to carry no more then 12 passengers without being required to be inspected under subchapter H.

[QUOTE=commtuna;168308]A 109GT inspected vessel requires a master of MORE than 100GT. Pretty cut and dry.

Being that your already a licensed master you should be familiar with manning requirements as per the CFR. Just my .02[/QUOTE]

In case you didn’t read the last question of my post, I was referring to "UN"inspected.

[QUOTE=cwneblett;168406]In case you didn’t read the last question of my post, I was referring to "UN"inspected.[/QUOTE]

even uninspected passenger vessels have 46CFR manning regulations requiring licensed operators

see 46CFR part 15 subpart E

.

[QUOTE=Jamesbrown;168284]By that cite, do you mean operate it as a Mate (with no other licensed onboard)? No must be a licensed Master onboard.

See the licensing section of the following:

http://www.uscg.mil/pvs/docs/UPV_GUIDEBOOK_Over100GTCMDT2014.pdf[/QUOTE]

I currently have that addendum. The top of page 6 where it says Pernell licensing continued, it states an OUPV can operate "UN"inspected 100-199 gt. That’s what caught my eye.

If you are carrying passengers you need a properly licensed Master onboard, which you currently are not. Try to see if you qualify for Master 200 GRT and upgrade.