It looks like World War III will be in Asia instead of the Middle East. The squabble over territorial waters is getting ridiculous.
On the up side, if we go to war with China we can nullify our debt to them.
It’s almost like China is just trying to fuck with Japan to get them to do something. I hate China and the fact that we do so much business with them.
[QUOTE=Colston1285;176170]It’s almost like China is just trying to fuck with Japan to get them to do something. I hate China and the fact that we do so much business with them.[/QUOTE]
There is a lot of bad blood between the two nations. There are people still alive (albeit few) from the second Sino-Japanese War.
Last time we were fighting with the Chinese against the Japanese because of their pacific empire building, this time we’ll be fighting with the Japanese against China.
Here’s a pretty good synopsis of what’s going on between them.
Well, I AM a Sith Lord (or is it Lady?)…did you think I’d post something from Mother Jones?
Actually there is no monarch, our council elects one of us to be the council chair, we even have term limits. …I’ve already said too much, return to your work boats peasants. And remember don’t organize, unions are bad.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;176162]It looks like World War III will be in Asia instead of the Middle East. The squabble over territorial waters is getting ridiculous.
On the up side, if we go to war with China we can nullify out debt to them.[/QUOTE]
know that the USA can eat China’s breakfast, lunch and dinner militarily. China’s is trying to both build and modernize their military to match ours, but it is no threat at all to the US nor will it ever be…PERIOD!
however, China now is economically gaining strength globally and that is where the real test is going to be of which nation becomes the dominant superpower in the second half of this century. We can win many battles against Chinese aggression in Asia but still lose the war when we are bankrupted after the China Central Bank decides to dump all its dollar holdings onto the world.
[QUOTE=lm1883;176184]My friends dad was up on the Frozen Chosin. He would have disagreed with you.[/QUOTE]
My uncle was there as well. He’s still alive but never talks about it.
They just want to flex their muscle after Russia did it with Ukraine
[QUOTE=lm1883;176184]Most importantly are the weapons of finance.[/QUOTE]
They have already won that race, or more accurately, we have lost it. The only race we are winning is the race to the bottom.
Consider that China laid the foundations for monopolizing strategic minerals in Africa 40 years ago. We started an industrial yard sale around the same time. Who needs strategic minerals when we have sold off the means to utilize them and the means to transport them?
[QUOTE=Steamer;176191]They have already won that race, or more accurately, we have lost it. The only race we are winning is the race to the bottom.
Consider that China laid the foundations for monopolizing strategic minerals in Africa 40 years ago. We started an industrial yard sale around the same time. Who needs strategic minerals when we have sold off the means to utilize them and the means to transport them?[/QUOTE]
True. If you subtract "services"and finance from the USA there is not much economy left compared to China especially if you subtract the parasitic “defense” industry in the USA. Financial services are a net loss to any economy as they are subtractive from the total economy and add no value.
[QUOTE=tengineer1;176198]True. If you subtract "services"and finance from the USA there is not much economy left compared to China especially if you subtract the parasitic “defense” industry in the USA. Financial services are a net loss to any economy as they are subtractive from the total economy and add no value.[/QUOTE]
You would have to think about what it would take to energize our manufacturing system similar to what happened in 1942. . . not sure that there is enough of a base any longer to make it happen. THAT is how we won the war. . we out manufactured our enemies, and the people had the fortitude to suffer horrendous personal losses. . . I may be wrong, but I just don’t see it happening today. . .
[QUOTE=lm1883;176240]It’s hard to fight with a $20 trillion dollar monkey on your back and our Russian and Chinese partners know this.[/QUOTE]
I’m guessing you are referring to the debt our government has to China, in which case war would be beneficial because we could declare our debt to China null and void.
Our debt is generally in the form of bonds which makes nullifying it impossible. We don’t owe money to China, we owe whoever holds the IOU when the IOU comes due. So China could just sell or trade our debt to someone else.
There will be unpleasant consequences of doing this. Recently China started selling a fraction of their holdings of our debt to depress the value of their currency relative to the dollar. There was worry that if they sold too fast it could hurt the global economy, ours included. If we tried to nullify our debt to China the global economy, including ours and theirs, would crash into depression.
[QUOTE=lm1883;176255]China has sold over a half a trillion this year and they aren’t the only ones, hence the December rate increase. But we would be at war, so the public would focus on other things and our crashing economy would have a culprit: "The Yellow Horde and his Crazy Dancing Bear"
Never mind all the years of inept leadership.[/QUOTE]
The debt as far as investment made by China is simply an agreement to pay the money back because they bought Treasury bonds. I also own Treasury bonds. Do not confuse debt for bonds with deficit spending. A government budget is not like a household budget for many reasons that an elementary study of economics will show. The Chinese bought US bonds because they believe in the ability of the USA to pay at some point in the future. Since the USA has a fiat currency the Chinese know they will get their money back. Even if the USA defaulted the Chinese or anyone else would have to take a haircut on a bad bet. They have no collateral promised so no recourse.
It would be like me promising to pay you $105 ten years later for every $100 you gave me. You are taking me at my word as a sovereign person who has never dafulted before that I will pay you $105. If I don’t? You have no recourse but to accept a less amount or nothing. Of course since the USA can print money they are a better bet than me to pay their debt.
[QUOTE=lm1883;176255]China has sold over a half a trillion this year and they aren’t the only ones, hence the December rate increase. But we would be at war, so the public would focus on other things and our crashing economy would have a culprit: "The Yellow Horde and his Crazy Dancing Bear"
Never mind all the years of inept leadership.[/QUOTE]
China sold some bonds they held. No big deal, they needed the money. I sell bonds I hold when I need the money also. The Fed rate increase has nothing to do with that. The Fed had been loaning money to the banks for near 0% interest. The banks used that money to loan to their buddies to make stock buy backs and other less savory pursuits. It is about time the Fed quit giving away money. No one I know got any of that 0% money.
[QUOTE=lm1883;176264]Half a trillion is more than “some bonds” When someone (China, Brazil, whomever else) sells a large amount of UST it pushes yields up especially since the amount sold by one nation this year is larger than our annual deficit. In order to keep yields stable in that environment someone has to soak it up. Had the Fed attempted to keep interest rates at zero it would have had to widen its balance sheet considerably more (it stands at over $4 trillion now).
Maybe I’m wrong though.[/QUOTE]
A trillion dollars to you and I is a large amount but to a nation not so much in the grand scheme of things. Remember bond prices move opposite of interest rates. If interest rates increase the previously bought bond is less attractive as the yield has dropped. IF someone anticipates an increase in interest rate then they may decide to sell their bond and pursue other investments with a greater return. Also remember all countries need cash now as the world economy is not that great. The “balance sheet” of the USA is of little consequence as long as inflation is kept in check which is one of the mandates of the Fed.
Giving bond buyers a guaranteed rate of return is NOT one of the Feds mandates. Maintaining full employment and controlling inflation are. They’ve been good at controlling inflation but they seem less concerned with full employment.