While attempting to renew my license I received the following request from the NMC

First correspondence:

…In order to resolve all the awaiting information and be issued, you must submit the appropriate service or BT Refresher course needed for renewal of your STCW…

Second correspondence:

…I have attached the STCW renewal checklist for your review. Per the sea service requirements on the checklist, 360 days of sea service on any waters must include onboard training and experience relative to the four elements of BT within the past 5 years. Your letter will have to state that you have performed these tasks.

Third correspondence:

The BST has four elements:

• Personal survival techniques
• Fire prevention and fire-fighting
• Elementary first-aid
• Personal safety and social responsibilities.

So here is my issue: my sea time letters relate to a commercial vessel that must be SOLAS compliant. SOLAS spells out all of the required training. This training is checked and rechecked by port state control, flag state control and the company’s designated person ashore. As an OICNW part of my duties as the safety officer and later as the medical officer were coordinating the training for these “four elements”. It seems bizarre that the NMC is requiring me to get a statement from a company that essentially says that the log book is not fraudulent when it comes to training and drills; and, that I did my job as a crew member.

I don’t know if this has been discussed before, but seems to be raising the bar again regarding redundant reporting requirements. When will it end.

This has been around for quite a few years, and yes, it is more complete bureaucratic b.s… I said the same thing when I renewed 6-7 years ago; why would you need some office guy to attest to the fact that the vessel was carrying out drills that are required by regulation, and that the officers were participating in the same.

Before you blame our friends in the USCG, most of the nonsense originates elsewhere… That said, it would be far easier if we would just adopt the international norms 100% rather than the sort of half way, two different license confusion we have now. The sky will not fall, even if the 3000T master can get his AGT master without sailing second mate…

Can you get a letter from your office stating you took part in drills and safety training?

All my sea time letters include this, figured every company knew to do this by now.

But I feel your pain when dealing with the lack of common sense when dealing with the NMC. I just recently upgraded from 500 to 1600 ton master and just sent in the sea time needed to move up, 720 days. Get an email saying they need 1440 days. I guess somebody failed math because you need 1080 just to get your 500 ton master and when i add 720 to it I get 1800 days.

But what you going to do? Easier to spend 5 minutes emailing the old sea time letters vs a week of arguing with them.

[QUOTE=Jemplayer;166736] Easier to spend 5 minutes emailing the old sea time letters vs a week of arguing with them.[/QUOTE]

So true…I put in for an upgrade recently as well. They claim I am three days short. Because its like pulling teeth to get another letter from my office I decided to try to contact my evaluator to make sure she got all my letters, because I feel her math is coming up short. After leaving a voice mail, I decided to email too. I got an automated response saying ‘please allow 11 business days’ for the email to get to her. The fact that communication is like this makes it frustrating. If you gotta allow two weeks to discuss or question something going back and forth the 90 days they give you to supply them with the information they want can burn up really quick.
Yes I am a big proponent of using a consultant but unfortunately mine passed away recently so I am trying to finish where he left off to avoid paying someone else, being so close to approval.

[QUOTE=Ctony;166766]So true…I put in for an upgrade recently as well. They claim I am three days short. Because its like pulling teeth to get another letter from my office I decided to try to contact my evaluator to make sure she got all my letters, because I feel her math is coming up short. After leaving a voice mail, I decided to email too. I got an automated response saying ‘please allow 11 business days’ for the email to get to her. The fact that communication is like this makes it frustrating. If you gotta allow two weeks to discuss or question something going back and forth the 90 days they give you to supply them with the information they want can burn up really quick.
Yes I am a big proponent of using a consultant but unfortunately mine passed away recently so I am trying to finish where he left off to avoid paying someone else, being so close to approval.[/QUOTE]

I still wonder why US mariners are using these retarded sea service letters from their employers? Use a damn USCG discharge and you won’t have to deal with all the dickheads and ignorant HR boobs from coast to coast at non-shipping companies who could give a shit about your ability to upgrade, renew, etc.

This is going to get downright hilarious come 12/31/16 when countless oil patch guys, tug and barge guys, etc. find themselves unable to work because they “are still waiting on their sea service letter from the office.”

Take the office out of the equation. Do not walk off a vessel without a discharge signed by you and the master. It’s your sea time not the office’s.

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;166768]I still wonder why US mariners are using these retarded sea service letters from their employers? Use a damn USCG discharge and you won’t have to deal with all the dickheads and ignorant HR boobs from coast to coast at non-shipping companies who could give a shit about your ability to upgrade, renew, etc.

This is going to get downright hilarious come 12/31/16 when countless oil patch guys, tug and barge guys, etc. find themselves unable to work because they “are still waiting on their sea service letter from the office.”

Take the office out of the equation. Do not walk off a vessel without a discharge signed by you and the master. It’s your sea time not the office’s.[/QUOTE]

I think a continuous discharge book would be preferable even to discharges but it would be beneficial if the USCG would enforce the discharge laws that are on effect.

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;166768]I still wonder why US mariners are using these retarded sea service letters from their employers? Use a damn USCG discharge and you won’t have to deal with all the dickheads and ignorant HR boobs from coast to coast at non-shipping companies who could give a shit about your ability to upgrade, renew, etc.

This is going to get downright hilarious come 12/31/16 when countless oil patch guys, tug and barge guys, etc. find themselves unable to work because they "are still waiting on their sea service letter from the office.[/QUOTE]

I’v never had a problem getting sea time letters from any past employers and I’ve left some under some pretty ill will on both sides. If that’s one thing OSV companies have down is thier sea time letters. Also the blanket statement that they don’t care about you’re renewl is false. Especially the notion that your current company dosent care a bit your upgrade or renewals. If they have money invested in your upgrade or your renewl they are just as vested as you are because they make money with your license just like you do.

Now please expand on what new rule is expected to change all this come 2017?

[QUOTE=Jemplayer;166771]Now please expand on what new rule is expected to change all this come 2017?[/QUOTE]

http://www.imo.org/en/MediaCentre/PressBriefings/Pages/67-STCW-EIF.aspx#.VcPhm_ntlBc

[QUOTE=Jemplayer;166771]If that’s one thing OSV companies have down is thier sea time letters.[/QUOTE]

My personal problem is I am working 2000 miles from the home office. Like trying to contact my evaluator, it seems getting through on the phone and email is a challenge.

[QUOTE=Jemplayer;166771]I’v never had a problem getting sea time letters from any past employers and I’ve left some under some pretty ill will on both sides. [B][I]If that’s one thing OSV companies have down is thier sea time letters.[/I][/B] Also the blanket statement that they don’t care about you’re renewl is false. Especially the notion that your current company dosent care a bit your upgrade or renewals. If they have money invested in your upgrade or your renewl they are just as vested as you are because they make money with your license just like you do.

[B][I]Now please expand on what new rule is expected to change all this come 2017?[/I][/B][/QUOTE]

  1. Having their sea time letters down is one thing, giving it to the mariner in a timely fashion is another.

  2. God help you, because I clearly can not.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;166770]I think a continuous discharge book would be preferable even to discharges but it would be beneficial if the USCG would enforce the discharge laws that are on effect.[/QUOTE]

I think it would be more beneficial if the mariners would take their balls back from the office.

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;166791]1. Having their sea time letters down is one thing, giving it to the mariner in a timely fashion is another.

  1. God help you, because I clearly I cant./QUOTE]

  2. What is a timely manner for you? Inside a month is acceptable to me, and my current company has emailed me a signed seatime and drug testing letters before end of business the day I made my last request. That was awesome as it saved me having to wait and scan since I email everything to the REC.

  3. Looking at Krakens link I don’t see any reference to the way sea time is calculated or reported. If I’m wrong a quick link is apreciated. I’m pretty good at staying on top of the changes but some do slip through.

If your making reference to the new training requirements that come into effect you should have made that clear. Everybody I know is aware of the coming changes and has taken or is signed up to take the classes and know that renewls from 2017 forward are going to require refresher courses.

As for the cranium rectum inversion and bias towards small boat operators and crews, particularly towards those of us that come from below the Mason Dixon Line you seem to be suffering from can’t help you, Hopefully someday you’ll grow up and lose that chip on your shoulder you seem to have.

[QUOTE=Jemplayer;166794][QUOTE=Johnny Canal;166791]1. Having their sea time letters down is one thing, giving it to the mariner in a timely fashion is another.

  1. God help you, because I clearly I cant./QUOTE]

  2. What is a timely manner for you? Inside a month is acceptable to me, and my current company has emailed me a signed seatime and drug testing letters before end of business the day I made my last request. That was awesome as it saved me having to wait and scan since I email everything to the REC.

  3. Looking at Krakens link I don’t see any reference to the way sea time is calculated or reported. If I’m wrong a quick link is apreciated. I’m pretty good at staying on top of the changes but some do slip through.

If your making reference to the new training requirements that come into effect you should have made that clear. Everybody I know is aware of the coming changes and has taken or is signed up to take the classes and know that renewls from 2017 forward are going to require refresher courses.

As for the cranium rectum inversion and bias towards small boat operators and crews, particularly towards those of us that come from below the Mason Dixon Line you seem to be suffering from can’t help you, Hopefully someday you’ll grow up and lose that chip on your shoulder you seem to have.[/QUOTE]

,

Born in, raised in, and still live in MS. So you can shove the Mason Dixon Line argument up your ass.

And I’ve never walked off a US ship OR a US OSV without a USCG 718A. Neither the office nor the “Master” has a legal choice in issuing one and the subsequent submittal to the NMC.

[QUOTE=Jemplayer;166736]Can you get a letter from your office stating you took part in drills and safety training?

All my sea time letters include this, figured every company knew to do this by now.

But I feel your pain when dealing with the lack of common sense when dealing with the NMC. I just recently upgraded from 500 to 1600 ton master and just sent in the sea time needed to move up, 720 days. Get an email saying they need 1440 days. I guess somebody failed math because you need 1080 just to get your 500 ton master and when i add 720 to it I get 1800 days.

But what you going to do? Easier to spend 5 minutes emailing the old sea time letters vs a week of arguing with them.[/QUOTE]

Not sure if this applies, but I do know that an automatic “awaiting infomration” notice is generated when the NMC goes to pull mariners’ legacy files from the National Personnel Records Center. It looks like they’re waiting on something from the mariner, but in fact they’re waiting on themselves. They just don’t have a code for that.

My solution to avoiding this delay is, in advance of making an application, request my entire record, then scan the relevant sea service, etc., and send it back to them with whatever new pages I’m providing. Silly, I know, but it does save 10 days or so. And I agree … they should be able to figure out that if you already hold Master 500, you have at least that much qualifying sea time.

[QUOTE=txh2oman;166822] And I agree … they should be able to figure out that if you already hold Master 500, you have at least that much qualifying sea time.[/QUOTE]

Maybe thats what it takes to keep clowns like MAX HARDBERGER from getting/renewing a license!

[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;166821][QUOTE=Jemplayer;166794]

,
[/QUOTE]

I wish my hair was that awsome!

[QUOTE=Jemplayer;166837][QUOTE=Johnny Canal;166821]

I wish my hair was that awsome![/QUOTE]

I wish I had hair!

[QUOTE=PMC;166644]First correspondence:

…In order to resolve all the awaiting information and be issued, you must submit the appropriate service or BT Refresher course needed for renewal of your STCW…

Second correspondence:

…I have attached the STCW renewal checklist for your review. Per the sea service requirements on the checklist, 360 days of sea service on any waters must include onboard training and experience relative to the four elements of BT within the past 5 years. Your letter will have to state that you have performed these tasks.

Third correspondence:

The BST has four elements:

• Personal survival techniques
• Fire prevention and fire-fighting
• Elementary first-aid
• Personal safety and social responsibilities.

So here is my issue: my sea time letters relate to a commercial vessel that must be SOLAS compliant. SOLAS spells out all of the required training. This training is checked and rechecked by port state control, flag state control and the company’s designated person ashore. As an OICNW part of my duties as the safety officer and later as the medical officer were coordinating the training for these “four elements”. It seems bizarre that the NMC is requiring me to get a statement from a company that essentially says that the log book is not fraudulent when it comes to training and drills; and, that I did my job as a crew member.

I don’t know if this has been discussed before, but seems to be raising the bar again regarding redundant reporting requirements. When will it end.

[/QUOTE]

This is not a USA issue alone. In the UK we have had to start these refresher courses every five years. It is due to MLC regulations requiring updating of STCW / SOLAS training.

I just got the word today from NMC that I also need a letter stating 30 days training and observation to get my Mate of Towing, Oceans. It truly is nonsensical. What the hell is the six pages of the TOAR? Do they really think we don’t do drills and ongoing training onboard? It’s like we are dealing with the USCG Department of Redundancy, Redundancy Department.
And why in the hell did the REC forward my stuff to the NMC if all was not in order?

[QUOTE=seadog6608;167412]I just got the word today from NMC that I also need a letter stating 30 days training and observation to get my Mate of Towing, Oceans. It truly is nonsensical. What the hell is the six pages of the TOAR? Do they really think we don’t do drills and ongoing training onboard? It’s like we are dealing with the USCG Department of Redundancy, Redundancy Department.
And why in the hell did the REC forward my stuff to the NMC if all was not in order?[/QUOTE]

The 30 days is extremely clear in the CFR, and has been around for 12 years. Many will argue that it is inadequate to achieve the competence needed to complete a TOAR. As far as your TOAR, are the sign-offs dated at least 30 days apart? If not, how is that evidence of 30 days service?

Many towing vessels are not required to have drills, and don’t have them.

Not sure of the time periods on the sign offs, but two discharges showing 30 odd days each certainly shows more than 30 days service. And at my outfit, we do so many darned drills it’s ridiculous. Especially on the one boat, She’s about 100 ton and inspected so the drill and training matrix is pretty intensive.