What’s the GRT on this 180’ OSV?
NMC gives two-shits about a COI. Evaluators will search the vessel in MISLE to confirm tonnage, classification, etc. They will also look at the document held as well as look as the seatime written under penalty of purjury before pulling out a checklist. Its a pretty simple process. The checklist are readily available. With STCW, an OS can be on the bridge accrue experience toward RFPNW. There is a provision for that. There is a reason why you are actively there with a Captain or a Mate. You cannot stand a watch by yourself, you are not qualified, and there is a reason for that as well as a regulatory framework. The is no legal avenue where a seatime letter can say you were a C/M, 2nd mate, or 3rd mate whom are all qualified to stand a watch by themselve when you are on a learner permit. Been doing this too long and know otherwise. Don’t worry though, there are many of us when asking questions over the years, when looking back, wondered what the hell was we thinking.
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Vessel is 193 US / 495 ITC.
On that vessel, with your current ordinary seaman and 100 ton master, you are an…ordinary seaman. Not a “2nd mate”.
There are plenty of LARGE crewboats and mini OSV’s, some in the 180 foot range, that are under 100 GRT.
Have you ever sailed as master or mate (legitimately) on your 100 ton ticket? If not, you should. Nothing like standing your own watch, alone, while the Captain is sound asleep, to sharpen your skills.
Don’t be surprised if you get a different result after you apply. As already noted above, calls/chats with the NMC’s “Customer Service Center” are general only, they are not specific to the caller’s unique situation and not binding when the details of the application are reviewed.
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It’s an OSV. Everybody’s a Captain (2nd Captain, 3rd Captain… 87th Captain, etc.)
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I have, even prior to licensing I held many solo watches on vessels ranging from 88’ to 134’. I was on the yachting side for 10 years before coming to the Gulf, went between Alaska and Panama a few times as well as many transits between NY & Florida before I decided to get myself in gear and get licensed.
Honestly, jdcavo is the resident authority on this stuff. Maybe you’re complicating things. You want a National Mate 500 or Mate 1600? Here’s the requirements from the NMC checklist: It sounds like you have plenty of good seatime and experience.
MATE LESS THAN 500 GRT 46 CFR
720 days of service in the deck department on Ocean, Near Coastal or Great
Lakes waters, OF WHICH
- Service on inland waters, other than GL, may substitute for up to 360
days of the total required service, AND
2. 360 days of service on vessels of more than 50 GRT, AND
3. 90 days of service while performing bridge watchkeeping duties under
the supervision of the master or a qualified officer on vessels of more
than 50 GRT.
MATE LESS THAN 1600 GRT 46 CFR
720 days of service in the deck department on Ocean, Near Coastal OR Great
Lakes waters, OF WHICH
- Service on inland waters, other than GL, may substitute for up to 360 of
the total required service, AND
2. 360 days of service on vessels of more than 100 GRT, AND
3. 180 days of service while performing bridge watchkeeping duties under
the supervision of the master or a qualified officer.
All these gyrations of claiming mate time as an OS isn’t necessary. It sounds like you’re on your way to a 500 or 1600 ton mate ticket, and maybe even already have the requisite time. If you want a Master license over 100 GT you’ll have to document master or mate time ON YOUR LICENSE. You’re not sailing on your Master ticket right now, but you could be.
I don’t know how item 3 is documented (jdcavo would know). I assume a letter on company letterhead “XXXX served as lookout, helmsman and associated duties…” When I obtained my Master 500/Mate 1600, I used time sailing as captain on crewboats and small passenger vessels over 50 GT as follows:
NATIONAL MASTER LESS THAN 500
2. 720 days of service MUST have been as a master, mate, or
equivalent position while holding an endorsement as master, mate, or
operator of uninspected passenger vessels, AND
3. 360 days of the service as master, mate, or equivalent position, must have
been on vessels over 50 GRT;
So, you could go this route also if you want. Not sure which is quicker for you.
As a side note, the GOM tradition of referring to mates as “2nd Captain” is confusing at best. I don’t know why that industry does that.
This discussion just further indicates that USCG licensing is in need of further reforms, simplification, and modernization.
It also further indicates why NMC ought to be shutdown and why licensing should return to the RECs.
The requirement should be that an applicant go to the REC in person to submit his application and remain present while it’s reviewed by a knowledgeable USCG staffer.
Any sort of abnormal seatime presented needs to be properly explained, or be rejected.
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OK boomer. Is your calendar stuck on 1978?
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What? That is pretty condescending and well beneath your usual level of helpful discourse. The RECs weren’t even established until 1982. I think the shipwreck that is the current incarnation of WV NMC wasn’t opened until 2008.
Is there any Mariner that has done business with NMC that doesn’t think the system is flawed beyond any level of comprehension?
I know the RECs had their own issues. But at least everyone had an opportunity to speak face to face with someone until there was some resolution.
There are still 17 RECs that are operating, but seemingly without any sort of mission or responsibility. How can you assert that USCG is effectively or efficiently serving their customers?
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Not that difficult to follow a checklist.
Goal:
I want a Mate’s license
Logic test:
What tonnage rating and route restriction for National endorcement?
Is the vessel subject to STCW?
Action:
Go to NMC website.
Print appropriate checklist(s).
Question:
Do I qualify?
Action 2:
Work on requirements.
Requirements met:
Apply.
Work:
Take Test
Achievement:
Passed Test
Credential Delivery:
Check Mail
Boss:
Ask for raise/promotion
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The fact that I can email my application from my home or ship anywhere in the world makes the current model far superior to any archaic system that would inconvenience me such that I have to show up in person to a government office. Holy crap that would be a giant leap backwards!
Yes, me. I recently renewed. I sent a single email, and in 30-days, with no further interaction, my license was waiting for me in my mailbox. Could it have been faster? Sure, majority of that time was awaiting an evaluator. I get it, there’s a labor shortage. Have I been annoyed in prior years getting an email telling me I’m getting a letter related to an issue, sure, and that part should be streamlined. But overall a flawed system? Not in my career experience.
It’s a Regional Exam Center, it’s where you go to take the Exams…their mission and responsiblity is literally in their name.
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I just think that an important part of the process that is missing today is having a qualified evaluator interview the applicant in person, get a sense of how qualified he appears to be, determine whether his seatime appears to be real, and what license he appears to be qualified to sit for.
Questions are raised and resolved, errors are fixed, and a final decision is made in less than an hour.
Yes, that’s how it was done by the OCMIs in the 1970s.
The system worked a lot better back then than it does now. Much faster and more accurate.
Really? Where did I go to apply for 3rd in 1980 (I’m also a boomer)? They existed in one form or another long before 1982, the name may be from 1982 (I don’t know) but the local office is much older. And there were a lot more of them, twice as may RECs, half as many mariners.
But, to the original comment, he said that applicants should be required to go to an REC, i.e. mail (USPS or email) is not available. Also not sure what RECs he went to, but in New York, while I went there in person, I did not get over the counter evaluation, I was advised by mail weeks later.
Maybe instead of going back to 1982, we can take the same resources and design a new system.
That’s the route he’s trying to take by claiming his OS time should count as an “equivalent position” because he ‘stands watch with the mate so he also is a mate’.
I presume you went to one of the 52 Marine Safety Offices (MSOs) and Marine
Inspection Offices (MIOs) that existed before they severed the licensing departments from 35 of them and turned the remaining 17 into RECs.
NAVITA NAVITA… a name so nice we have to say it twice? It certainly is about time to move away from pdf-based forms and move into the 20th century (yes I realize we are already in the 21st).
I went to “the Coast Guard” at the Battery, same place they were from forever until about last year. And there were 52 of them. That was 3 times as many offices, half as many mariners, no TWIC, drug tests, background checks, and the only course you needed after your first license was radar renewal (and the original only needed radar, basic firefighting, and first aid/CPR. Those days are gone and not coming back.
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I agree with drugs tests and the like, but the TWIC? Can’t we just call that a picture card? It’s about as useful as carrying a passport photo which the USCG can get electronically. Basically, a $100 selfie. Save the plastic, the transit resources to make another trip somewhere, and just do a database search at NMC. Make the MMC in lieu of a TWIC. The lessons learned from 9/11 was the inability between departments to share information. I’m sure this one can get figured out; there are easier ways to get a picture. Most times that little useless card is out of step with the MMC anyhow.
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There is support to make a plausible argument that the original intent was to exclude merchant mariners as they were already subject to a more comprehensive background check.
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