[QUOTE=tugnutts28;150352]I’ll agree, I think on average there’s more nutt-jobs as tankerman than any other position. I think this is just an ego thing though. I’ve never had a problem with barge captains making as much as mates. From what I’ve seen they have an equal amount of responsibility, doesn’t matter if a license is required to do the job or not. Plus, it’s not like master of towing is a hard license to get. That apprentice mate/steersman test was the easiest part of getting a license, the rest is just a toar, which depending on your DE can also be cake to get, and seatime. The way I see it, if you think you’re getting a fair wage then wtf do you care what somebody else is getting? If you don’t think your wage is fair than go somewhere else. Also, apparently every company that pays os’s or tankerman a decent wage is a tankerman
or OS company. I think these companies make enough money that it’s ok if they wanna share the wealth.[/QUOTE]
Master of Towing has become a time consuming, expensive, aggravating license that requires years of seatime to get.
Tankerman only takes 90 days associated with oil barges, 5 loads, 5 discharges, and a 5 day course to get.
Obviously it’s a lot easier/quicker to get a tankerman ticket but no barge capt is making the same as a master of tow. They’re usually on par with mates and all it takes to get mate of towing is a pretty simple test and a toar. The toar can be fairly difficult for some but I don’t think it’s very aggravating, it’s training, and it’s only like a year or year and half of sea time to upgrade from apprentice mate to mate of tow. Then to upgrade to master is just a matter of getting more seatime, piece of cake. Also it’s only expensive if you go to a school for your toar, but it’s easier and more beneficial to just get it signed off onboard. So in reality it’s actually cheaper to get a mate of tow than a tankerman since that is the only one that requires a class.
Many tug companies prefer, if not outright require, their mates and masters to also have, and a great many tug officers do have: master or mate 1600, OCEANS, with up to date BST, BRM,Radar, ARPA,GMDSS, Adv. Fire, Medical Care Provider, VSO, HAZWOPER, etc. etc., Some guys also have an unlimited 2nd or 3rd mate.
After you get your mate of towing, and actually are sailing as a mate, let me know if you still think you’re not worth more than a tankerman,
It should also be noted that the day rate they quote you at when you’re hired may not be concrete. I was told specifically by the HR guy Tom Lamm that depending on where your boat is your day rate fluctuates. He didnt volunteer this info. I had to ask. I forget the details but it was something like offshore towing vs harbor work and also what region you were working in. In other words your day rate could be significantly lower if you make a trip from NY to norfolk once you get south of Delaware bay.
Haha, everything you just listed with the exception of Oceans (I’m only N/C), MCP and GMDSS, I’ve got. And you’re right, all that did take awhile and was a pain in the ass. That being said I know plenty of guys sailing on their towing license alone.
The biggest difference I know, and why I chose the wheelhouse, is that the ceiling is much higher with a license. I believe working as a mate is equal in responsibility to a good barge capt but what the bargeman doesn’t have is the option to advance after that, can’t become a captain or pilot and most likely won’t get much consideration for higher shoreside jobs like port captain/engineer unless they’re a very skilled tankerman. This is why I always laugh when wheelhouse guys bitch about what tankerman make, they don’t understand that all that work they did will pay off in the long run while the tankerman, while he made his money quicker and is still making a very good living, has basically dead ended his career. Of course I know this is not always true, but more often than not once your a tankerman that’s it.
[QUOTE=tugnutts28;150425]Haha, everything you just listed with the exception of Oceans (I’m only N/C), MCP and GMDSS, I’ve got. And you’re right, all that did take awhile and was a pain in the ass. That being said I know plenty of guys sailing on their towing license alone.
The biggest difference I know, and why I chose the wheelhouse, is that the ceiling is much higher with a license. I believe working as a mate is equal in responsibility to a good barge capt but what the bargeman doesn’t have is the option to advance after that, can’t become a captain or pilot and most likely won’t get much consideration for higher shoreside jobs like port captain/engineer unless they’re a very skilled tankerman. This is why I always laugh when wheelhouse guys bitch about what tankerman make, they don’t understand that all that work they did will pay off in the long run while the tankerman, while he made his money quicker and is still making a very good living, has basically dead ended his career. Of course I know this is not always true, but more often than not once your a tankerman that’s it.[/QUOTE]
Its nice that you are happy to be sailing mate for the same pay as tankerman. You are the only mate I’ve ever heard of that thinks that’s appropriate. Smooth sailing.
It’s not that I’m happy to be making the same as a barge capt it’s that I don’t give a shit what other guys are making. I think I’m getting a fair wage and that’s good enough for me. I’m not gonna get all stressed about what others are getting cause then you get into the idea that some mates and some Capts aren’t worth a shit either and they’re getting the same as ones who work their ass off and have way more experience. As I said before, when you get a license it gives you way more options, and I think that’s a big part of what your paying for when you take the tests and get the endorsements. Tankermen don’t have that. I’m not trying to be a prophet for tankermen but I think, at least at my company, they get a bad rap. But maybe I’ve just been lucky enough to work with guys who worked hard and knew what they were doing. It’s always an area of tension on some boats between the wheelhouse and barge and I honestly think it’s more on the wheelhouse side. It’s like a stupid power struggle between the two. I’ve found if you just leave them alone you can usually get along fine.
[QUOTE=tugnutts28;150447]It’s not that I’m happy to be making the same as a barge capt it’s that I don’t give a shit what other guys are making. I think I’m getting a fair wage and that’s good enough for me. .[/QUOTE]
How do you know you’re getting a fair wage if you don’t pay attention to what other guys are making? You could think $125 a day is a good deal if you don’t give a shit what other guys make.
Personally, I don’t care what tankermen make, as nobody is stopping me from leaving the wheelhouse to pump other than myself, and I make more than tankerman do at my company so there’s no issue. When its 95 degrees out and they’re breathing vapor, or standing around on deck when its below 0 they’re earning it on their feet and I am not…who care’s what they make.
[QUOTE=“z-drive”] How do you know you’re getting a fair wage if you don’t pay attention to what other guys are making? You could think $125 a day is a good deal if you don’t give a shit what other guys make. /QUOTE]
When I go home and look at my check and see all the fucking money I’ve got. If I can dump the cash all over my bed and it covers me up when I roll around in it, I think that’s fair. Also, as long as I can afford the really fancy hookers, get the real gf experience, then I’m still good. The day I can’t afford that anymore I’m asking for a raise.
When I go home and look at my check and see all the fucking money I’ve got. If I can dump the cash all over my bed and it covers me up when I roll around in it, I think that’s fair. Also, as long as I can afford the really fancy hookers, get the real gf experience, then I’m still good. The day I can’t afford that anymore I’m asking for a raise.[/QUOTE]
Look again at what you wrote. One doesn’t have to be any kind of snob to have disdain for these type of remarks. It doesn’t take being religious either. All it takes is being normal.
[QUOTE=“tugsailor”][/QUOTE]
No it’s not normal, any normal person would have recognized it for what it was and not thrown a fit over something so obviously ridiculous. I was making a silly joke because this thread has become laughable. Get over yourself bra.
[QUOTE=tugnutts28;150352]I’ll agree, I think on average there’s more nutt-jobs as tankerman than any other position… I’ve never had a problem with[B][I] barge captains[/I][/B] making as much as mates. From what I’ve seen they have an equal amount of responsibility, doesn’t matter if a license is required to do the job or not. Plus, it’s not like master of towing is a hard license to get. That apprentice mate/steersman test was the easiest part of getting a license, the rest is just a toar, which depending on your DE can also be cake to get, and seatime. The way I see it, if you think you’re getting a fair wage then wtf do you care what somebody else is getting? If you don’t think your wage is fair than go somewhere else. Also, apparently every company that pays os’s or tankerman a decent wage is a tankerman or OS company. I think these companies make enough money that it’s ok if they wanna share the wealth.[/QUOTE]
And then I wanted to Puke. Barge Captain! No such animal. You need to get out of NY to see how Tankerman are referred to anywhere else BUT NY.
I agree…! I’ve heard management call them “Barge Masters” lol…! We on the boats call them Barge Masters unlimited earth, Barge Masters. Masters of what!
Don’t know lol, I’m a west cost tug guy being a smart ass about tanker men, well some tanker men, no broad brush statement. The term Barge Master is funny as hell to us boat trash.