Upgrading to 2nd mate unlimited

I have a 3rd mate AGT oceans currently trying to upgrade to a 2nd mate AGT with the 1600 master 3000ITC endorsement currently working on a boat that is 1691 GRT according to the spec sheet online and asking the office people

You need 180 days over 100 GRT, plus 180 over 1600 GRT while sailing on a 3rd mate license in order to upgrade to 2nd mate without a tonnage restriction. It sounds like you have enough days, but not enough over 1600. Simple solution is to keep working on the 1691 GRT boat until you have 180 days over 1600.

Need more info I guess. Has all your time been on this vessel or a vessel over 1600T since you got your 3rd mate? If so, there must be more to the story because I don’t see why the would put a restriction on you.

What type of vessel?

Are your days counted as 1.5 days or day for day?

[QUOTE=t.mcg;144833]Can someone please explain to me how the coast guard can put a tonnage restriction on my license if the boat I work on is over 1600 grt? I applied to upgrade and was told that I would receive 2nd mate with a tonnage restriction. No idea how that works. Appreciate it. Thank you[/QUOTE]

You need 180 days on a vessel over 1,600 GRT, if you have less than that, you will get the tonnage restriction. Without knowing specifics, I suspect this is the issue. If the largest vessel you worked on was 1,691 GRT, and if you have less than 180 days on that vessel, your 2nd Mate would be limited to 2,000 GRT. See 46 CFR 11.402.

[QUOTE=AB Murph;144837]To my understanding you would be covered under the old Rules as long as you received your 3rd mate before March 2014. If after then you would fall under the new rules whatever they may be.[/QUOTE]

It doesn’t matter. The rules for tonnage limits for “unlimited” licenses and the regs for 2nd and 3rd Mate weren’t substantially changed as they would apply here, i.e. the minimum service/tonnage to avoid a tonnage limit was not chnaged, nor were the requirements for 2nd Mate. This notwithstanding, it’s not when “t.mcg” received the 3rd Mate license that determines whether the old rules may be used, it’s the first day of service used to qualify for 2nd Mate, i.e. the first day of service as 3rd Mate.

It doesn’t matter. The tonnage rules for “unlimited” licenses and the regs for 2nd and 3rd Mate weren’t substantially changed. This notwithstanding, it’s not when “t.mcg” received the 3rd Mate license that determines whether the old rules may be used, it’s the first day of service used to qual;ify for 2nd Mate, i.e. the first day of service as 3rd Mate.[/QUOTE] So, if he has a combination of sea days thats ranges from before and after the rules came in effect can he pick what rules he wants to go under? Or he has to use the old rules because his first day of service was before the changes? And if he can pick what rules apply, does he has to specify it in the application? The changes were not that big, but some people with 3rd mates tickets start in the industry as A/B on tug boats and most of those tugs are under 200 GT. The new rules lets you use sea days over 100GT, and thats something BIG for people out there. At least for some of those tug boat guys with 3rd mate tickets.

[QUOTE=0rion;144868]So, if he has a combination of sea days thats ranges from before and after the rules came in effect can he pick what rules he wants to go under? Or he has to use the old rules because his first day of service was before the changes? And if he can pick what rules apply, does he has to specify it in the application? The changes were not that big, but some people with 3rd mates tickets start in the industry as A/B on tug boats and most of those tugs are under 200 GT. The new rules lets you use sea days over 100GT, and thats something BIG for people out there. At least for some of those tug boat guys with 3rd mate tickets.[/QUOTE]

See NVIC 2-14. You are eligible for grandfathering if you began service or training for the endorsement you are applying for before March 24, 2014. In this case, all of the time needed for 2nd Mate has to be while holding 3rd Mate, so anythinig before getting 3rd Mate cannnot be used, and thus you cannot begin service for 2nd Mate before you had 3rd Mate.

I am not saying that the lowering of the minimum tonnage was not substantial, and revised my original post to clarify the limited scope of my response. My response was to “t.mcg” and nothing in his question suggested that the chnage in the minuimum tonnage from 200 GRT to 100 GRT applies to him/her.

As to whether you can choose, read the NVIC. For some chnages, like lowering the minimum tonnage, you don’t have to choose, we will use the new, lower standard for everyone.

Cavo, thanks for the response.

We are on the same page about the sea time that has to be while holding the 3rd mate ticket. (As A/B while holding 3rd mate. Up to a max of 180 days on vessels over 100gt)

I just asked about requesting to be evaluated under the new rules because not always the favorable rule is applied and in the NVIC it does not specify if it has to be requested or the CG will apply it automatically if they see that you meet the requirements.

Thanks again.

[QUOTE=t.mcg;144858] a boat that is 1691 GRT[B] according to the spec sheet online and asking the office people[/B][/QUOTE]

BUT YOU CAN’T LOOK AT THE GODDAMN COD? You don’t deserve to upgrade to 2nd.

Does the vessel have both a domestic and and international tonnage certificate?
If the office is saying it’s 1691 GT (ITC), but it’s dually documented and has a GRT under 1600, there in lies your problem from what I’ve read.

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/professional_qualifications/pdfs/crediting_sea_service.pdf

Policy Letter 11-12 refers only to vessels measured in both conventional and regulatory measurement systems i.e., Dual Tonnage.
● It applies to vessels that have both measurements, Gross Registered Tons (GRT) & Gross Tons (International Tonnage Convention) [GT (ITC)], in Marine Information for Safety and Law Enforcement (MISLE)-
 200 GRT = 500 GT (ITC)
 1600 GRT = 3,000 GT (ITC)
If a vessel only has ITC tonnage, then the ITC tonnage will be credited as Gross Registered Tons and the guidance in this policy letter would not apply. (In other words, vessel tonnage is listed as 2300 ITC and has no GRT listed, then the mariner would be credited with service on a vessel of 2300 GRT.)

It’s hard to look at it when I’m at home

I’ve worked 252 days working 12 hour watches on the same class of vessel so I should be covered under the 180 days

[QUOTE=t.mcg;144889]I’ve worked 252 days working 12 hour watches on the same class of vessel so I should be covered under the 180 days[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you need a license consultant that knows how to talk to the people at NMC.

[QUOTE=t.mcg;144889]I’ve worked 252 days working 12 hour watches on the same class of vessel so I should be covered under the 180 days[/QUOTE]

It depends on the type of vessel. Generally, the increased credit for 12 hour days is only available for 12 hours of watch, and only if the vessel was a type that is allowed by law to have two watches (tugs and OSVs on voyages of less than 600 miles).

[QUOTE=t.mcg;144887]It’s hard to look at it when I’m at home[/QUOTE]

Just use google. “Documented vessels of the us”. That should get you a link to the nmfs documented vessels database. Then look up your vessel by name or officail number. It will list the GRT or GT.

I’m on a osv all my time that I put my app in with was time on a osv.

I searched as you mention. According to that site I got gross tonnage 1691. Net tonnage 507 I guess this changes things with the numbers

It sounds like the vessel is 1691 GT not 1691 GRT.

[QUOTE=t.mcg;144921]I searched as you mention. According to that site I got gross tonnage 1691. Net tonnage 507 I guess this changes things with the numbers[/QUOTE]

For licesning, net tonnage is irrelevant. The issue is what type of “gross tons.” Is it Gross Registered Tons (GRT), or Gross Tons (GT) under the International Tonnage Convention (ITC). The GRT is usually lower than the GT. There is no way to convert one to the other, but for licensing purposes the Coast Guard considers 1,600 GRT to be equivalent to 3,000 GT, see 46 CFR 10.232(i). If you’re going for 2nd Mate, the threshold for whether or not you get a tonnage limt is 1,600 GRT and/or 3,000 GT. If all your time is on this one vessel, you would not get a tonnage limit if the vessel is 1,691 GRT, but you will get one if it is 1,691 GT. I suspect it is GT as there are advantages to keeping a vessel under 1,600 GRT, and once that threshold is crossed, it’s usually by more than 91 GRT.

[QUOTE=t.mcg;144920]I’m on a osv all my time that I put my app in with was time on a osv.[/QUOTE]

If the vessel is an OSV, it is almost certainly measured under GT as most OSVs are measured under GT only.

I’ll echo z-drive and say you should just stay a 3rd mate.

Can’t take the crossover 1600 master test without 2/M