Upgrade from Master OSV to Master Unlimited

Professional Mariner Forum
1

I know we have discussed this before and I have reread some old threads and the checklists, but remain a bit confused about how this actually works in practice. My understanding is that there is an upgrade path from Master OSV to Master unlimited.

I’m not interested in discussing what the USCG regulations ought to be or why they should not be as they are.

Now that I have Master OSV 2000/4000, I would like to remove the OSV limitation. I expect to be stuck with the same tonnage limitation forever.

As I read the CFRs and the checklist, it appears that I am entitled to upgrade to unlimited Master STCW II/2 3000 GT or more, without anymore sea time just by passing the exam and taking the mandatory STCW courses. However, I do not see anything that authorizes me to obtain a national license as Master AGT restricted to 2000/4000. Without the national license to go with it the STCW would be meaningless.

Can anyone point me to the correct Info?

Has anyone ever done this?

2

Look at the requirements in 46 CFR 11.404 for Master Unlimited, and then look at the definition of “chief mate” in 46 CFR 10.107.

3

Thank you.

Of course the CFR just raises more questions.

  1. 360 days of service must be as Chief Mate, even though sailing Master is superior experience, sailing as Master does not count? Or does sailing as Master count?

  2. 180 days may be on vessels over 100 GRT, but less than 1600 GRT?

  3. 180 days must be on vessels over 1600 GRT?

  4. 360 days (8 hour watch) or 240 days (12 hour watch) as Chief Mate on an ATB, or other tug/barge combination, over 1600 GRT is creditable as 180 days of service over 1600 GRT?

Those would be the requirements for Master unlimited without any tonnage restriction.

So what would the requirements be for Master AGT, restricted to 2000/4000? Logically, that should not require any seatime over 1600 GRT?

4

46 CFR 11.402.

5

So it’s the same as with my current 2000/4000 license, I can live with that.

6

God how I hate this world!

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7

I agree with you that this OSV to Unlimited licensing give away for the bayou boys is total BS.

However, since everyone else is benefiting from this screwed up USCG system, I might as well too. At my advanced age it doesn’t really make much sense since I never sail on anything other than tugs and fishing vessels, but I just want to have 2000/4000 without a effin’ OSV restriction.

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8

As far as I can see, there is no requirement to pass an exam to receive the STCW endorsement.

There are assessments and additional training. Many of the assessments are “signed off” as part of taking the classes.

Many of the tasks in the Assessment Guidelines attached tho NVIC 101-14 are designated with “Note 1”, " Mariners holding STCW endorsements as Master or Chief Mate of 500 GT or More and Less Than 3,000 GT do not need to complete these assessments."

9

Correct, the exam is for the national endorsement that is a requirement to get the STCW endorsement.

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10

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So, I was going through NVIC 3-17, not 100% sure but it looks like you can have your OSV restriction removed from your international endorsement by taking advanced ship handling and any assessments not covered in your original OSV assessment package that are listed in the Chief Mate/Master unlimited assessments. I’m going to apply for it and reference the removal of the limitation vs. master unlimited upgrade. CFR’s are subject to interpretation. It’s probably been phased out, but I haven’t seen the verbiage of that just yet. But it was a path from master OSV 10000 to master unlimited. Any experiences attempting this path?

11

You’re still restricted by your national license at all times, despite their not being an OSV restriction on the STCW endorsement.

12

Thanks for your input!

13

So I requested to have the OSV limitation removed from my international endorsement, nmc sent an AI letter stating that I just needed to complete a few specific assessments, 22 I believe, and no additional classes were required. I was just issued the 10,000 non-trade restricted.

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14

That only removes the OSV limitation on an STCW certificate. It doesn’t get you the national endorsement (license) of Master Any Gross Tons (aka Master Unlimited). In your case, you had a Master 10,000 license that was not limited to OSVs, essentially Master Unimited with a tonnage limit

This is not going to work for everyone, If your national endorsement is Master OSV, you are still limited to OSVs. You are bound by limitations on BOTH the license and the STCW, if your license is limited to OSVs, you cannot work on anything else, even if the STCW endorsement is not limited to OSVs.

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15

Did you have to take the classes to upgrade to large OSV or did you have that already before 2017?

16

I completed the large OSV program prior to 2017.

17

At that time there were no addition classes, uscg had only introduced the program and I completed it as soon as HOS was approved for it.

18

That makes your experience even less relevant to others. Courses weren’t required for any Master endorsement at that time, just assessments.

The USCG didn’t “introduce” programs. The OSV operators developed “Large OSV” approved them.

19

But the USCG signed off on and issued that new (at the time) 10,000 Masters License. I sailed with one of the first Masters to be granted one.

That USCG decision created a slippery slope.

20

I’m not sure you have the details right. You seem to be confusing two separate things in addition to intermixing STCW and national endorsements. The Large OSV programs were for Master OSV Not More Than 6,000 GT (not 10,000). The license for Master OSV Less Than 10,000 license was the result of 2014 regulation changes, it took full effect in 2017. A license of Master Not More Than 10,000 (not limited to OSV) has always been possible, as I already noted it’s “Master Unlimited” with a tonnage limit. But because of the tonnage service required and paucity of vessels in that tonnage range, they would be extremely rare.

Short summary of above, there is no “crossover” from Master OSV to Master Unlimited. All applicants have to meet the same requirements. But, based on the definition of Chief Mate ion 46 CFR 10.107 and the tonnage of the largest OSVs, it’s possible to get Master Any Gross Tons (the correct title of “Master Unlimited”) without a tonnage or trade limit with OSV service.

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