I’m all for a well run union but they seem to inevitably slide towards abuse, greed and malfeasance, much like the bosses they square off against. Almost like they are all human beings or something…
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The long time MMP and MEBA deep sea guys are doing well. Recent joiners don’t get much work, and it tends to be undesirable lower paying jobs.
You are probably correct that most non union mariners do not understand union benefits like OT (overtime) and ATO (accumulated time off, or vacation pay). However, many of us do understand that it is necessary to look at total compensation, including ATO and OT.
What deep sea union members do not understand is that employers of MMP Inland, SIU Inland, and most IBU, Local 25, Local 5000, etc. are: free to hire anybody they want to as long as that person joins the union after some amount of time. There is no obligation to hire existing union members. What kind of a union is that?
I’ve worked union contracts that accrue ATO at 4, 6, or 8 hours per day. I’ve worked union contracts that have many exceptions to overtime, such as no overtime for masters.
Union employers also tend to crew-off the boat for half a day, or a day, or two days whenever possible, while the typical non union employer would leave the boat fully crewed.
I occasionally do temp work for union companies. On one such job last year we were busy everyday and I made great money while it lasted. I’d like to do it again. On another job, I was called off more than I was called in, and I would have done better with the lowest paying non union job in the area. When you are a non union temp in a union job, you get OT, but don’t get any ATO.
I recall being on an MMP Inland job, where the biggest complaint on the boat was that the contract did not allow the union crew members to go to the MMP school for free. What kind of union enters into that kind of contract to deny union members basic union provided benefits?
There is a growing need for good “inland” unions, but a shortage of good unions.
I’m all for a well run union but they seem to inevitably slide towards abuse, greed and malfeasance, much like the bosses they square off against.
True. But you can’t fight devils with angels. At least the members can vote the union devils out…if they want.
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Union
Labor unions tried a unionizing drive in the south in Operation Dixie at least partly in response the Taft-Hartley act was passed in 1947 to weaken unions.
More recently the so-called right to work law have been passed to weaken unions.
Unions tried tried to organize the pilots and captain on the river tugs but IIRC got beat back with the captain are management ruling from NLRB.
. NLRB now lacking Dems on the board, and so forth.
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I doubt very much the company(s) party to that contract were not paying into the training fund that supports the MMP school. Hence it was not a “free” benefit to those members.
The question arises what courses does the school offer that is required for inland members?
If MMP training facilities weren’t so god-awful expensive and over burdened with indirect costs, more companies and mariners would certainly make good use of it. As it is, MITAGS is at least twice the cost of any other training option, the hotel is 60% more than the commercial one next door, and they seem to make more money renting event space in their bloated campus than catering to mariners.
I agree with you that union officials aren’t smart enough or ambitious enough but during the pre-2015 boom I don’t think anybody making oil field wages wanted anything to do with a union. Those GoM guys were making several hundred dollars more per day than the east & west coast union workers. They didn’t need a union then.
If the union officials want to get their hands on GoM oil field money they will need to do 3 things.
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Move in during bad times when people are suffering for whatever reasons.
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Have some union members working in the GoM oilfield already that don’t have sour tastes in their mouths from prior union experiences. When I worked in the GoM oilfield I had coworkers who used to be union members & they usually talked a lot of shit about unions, that’s why they were in the GoM.
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Quit talking down to GoM guys & pretending the East & West coasts are so much better. In '96 I worked on the lower Mississippi & this guy from NY named Dicky or Dougy tried this thing called Pilots Agree to get the union foot in the door & many river guys thought he was an arrogant dick.
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Just about any course offered by PMI would be of interest to MMP Inland members.
MMP Inland is a misnamed union. It covers Washington State Ferries, unlimited tonnage vessels, some of which go on foreign voyages to Canada that require STCW. MMP also covers the Alaska Marine Highway that goes all the way to Dutch Harbor with unlimited tonnage vessels.
MMP Inland covers tugboats going to Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, down the coast, and elsewhere. Some tugs are over 200 GRT and require STCW. Many union tugboat companies require more credentials than the USCG does. Many tugboat mariners are academy grads with unlimited licenses who want to upgrade to the greatest extent they can.
Many MMP Inland members aspire to become pilots. In some parts of the US many of the pilots do come from the tugboat fleet.
For that matter, don’t many pilots belong to MMP Inland?
The fact that MMP inaccurately, and pejoratively, calls its non-deep draft branch “inland” ( as if they are not real mariners) is a good indicator of how inept at marketing MMP leadership was back when that “inland” name was adopted. It may also explain why the “inland” division is such a mismanaged and neglected red headed stepchild that may be an worse excuse for a union than AMO.
Look. The offshore division has traditionally been the most active side of the MMP with the largest percentage of members, but times are changing. As an offshore member, I can tell you that the leadership is focusing much more on inland and the other divisions in the last five years. Whatever is necessary to survive I suppose. But I wouldn’t call the leadership stupid. Just trying to keep the wheels on the bus like the rest of us.
Disclaimer: I don’t have a pension private or union so I don’t have a dog in the fight.
I was on your side at first. I was imagining myself from the standpoint of an older union retiree. After reading your “$80 extra per participate” comment, your AARP link & other sites I asked myself, “$80 every what? Month, quarter, year?”
Then I put myself into the shoes of a current PBGC pension union worker who is a GenX’er or a Millennial. The GenX’ers & Millennials union members will NEVER get anything close to the Cadillac plans that Boomers were giving each other & patting themselves on the back for 30-50 years ago when they had corporate America by the balls & got whatever they wanted? Why should the boomer union members get filet mignon pension plans at the expense of GenX’er & Millennial union members when the later gets left with the scraps? The boomers were writing Cadillac plans for each other when national union membership was 35% but now it’s down to 10% & falling & they want the next generations to pay more when the next generations have less members & make less money?!?! The boomers left things really shity IMO. If I were a participant in this system I wouldn’t be too eager to pay more either. It sounds like a bunch of boomer union members fucked a good thing up, left the system dieing & want to blame a bunch of young people who just showed up for killing the goose who lays golden eggs.
Let the individuals who are supposed to pay the extra $80 every ___ vote on it is all I can come up with for a solution.
My anemosity towards the US flag unions goes way back. Favor after favor. Threats “if you don’t take the job, you will kicked out” “how did you get this job?” “Please take this job so we (union) can get the next contract”
Pay was so low…lost my house, but never quit. Then they got the contract and I trained everybody. Then I was terminated after a year due to age. Union promises to maritime academy grads…opened the doors wide for $$ and because of the influx of new officers, union collaboration decided to terminate after 20 years of pension credit. Didnt matter what your pension $$ was…or that you kids in college, you are out! And plus, you can’t work in the seagoing industry! Or you loose your pension! Union officials have mega pensions building regardless of age.
Union officials talk the talk…but they are just protecting their job while their credentials expire and their seagoing career in going away. I have nothing against bringing in the youth for $$/dues, but not at the expense of the veterans. Overselling the union job opportunities is a sham. How many kids join the union…pay the $, only to find out there are no jobs…unions are job brokers…in a lottery or ‘back door shipping’ environment. My opinion held for 30 yrs.
Long story. MMP member $7k invested “sorry no jobs anymore, but here is a foreign flag company that will hire you” AMO - “take that ship, or you’ll never work here again”
MEBA - 20 yrs of pension credit. Favor after favor after favor after favor…turned down awesome job due to commitment with a favor job. Big mistake… lost my house due to professionalism. Favor jobs for union to maintain reputation and win contracts…“terminated after 20 yrs of pension credits” JEOPARDY: guess who I am?
Sure, I got a pension well before my retirement age…but who is hiring white male 60 yr olds these days?
Sand Pebble, agree on a few items.In the grand scheme of things regarding younger workers having to prop up the older workers in our seemingly troubled Social Security is not much different from the dilemma some of the unions are in. Less workers, more retirees. Hopefully, the adjustments the well run unions have made keep them more solvent than our elected officials in Congress. I am comfortable with a pension fund that is 85% funded. Certainly not the Feds numbers.
I haven’t any first hand experience with Unions since 1970, but it appears to me that Maritime Unions in the US are very different from what they are in Europe (??)
I don’t know if it is of any interest, but here is links to some European Unions:
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That’s a good question. The union pays to run the halls, the benefit plans,pension, health plans etc, the schools. What percentage of the budget comes from telling mariners there are jobs and then collecting money?
Let the individuals who are supposed to pay the extra $80 every ___ vote on it is all I can come up with
Its annual and the company pays it not the individual. Which helps explain why congress won’t increase the premium.
Kinda like the same reason congress won’t lift the cap on the annual SS contribution max in order to make the system more solvent. Its not the employees they worry about as that would increase the top benefit for the high earners but the employer match would go up too and the employers don’t want that to happen so it doesn’t. Employers could care less if Social Security failed as its overhead money that could better be spent on multimillion CEO salaries, golden parachutes and the like.
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Well there’s the mistake right there. Don’t send a “yankee” down to the GOM… period. You’ll never get support. The companies may talk diversity, but the crews… not so much. Some “fast talking eye-talian” that doesn’t know “breakfast rice” from grits is going to get laughed right out of there if he doesn’t piss them off in 30 seconds. Toss some money at the Houston halls and get them up to snuff and then send them, if you’re even going to try sending anybody.
Me, I’ll just sit here and wait for the inevitable pay raise that comes every time the union tries to get in the gulf and the companies get nervous. So, please… go for it.
(and someone was talking about vacation pay “doubling” their pay… HA!!! I had 11/30 on the contract where I was before I came to the gulf from AMO)
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According to the internets Dickey Mathes is from Greenville Mississippi. His father was pilot on the tugs, wife was cook on the tugs, brother etc…
When people complain about unions like the maritime unions I ask what’s the problem? They say unions are corrupt so therefore their members are; now where they get that idea I know. When I mention that some of the most unionized people in the USA are the police and fireman so they are corrupt also? You as a taxpayer pay their salary so maybe you should do something about the corrupt unions those guys use to take your tax money. .
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