Understanding China


I live in the real universe, not the “alternative universe” with “alternative facts” you appears to be part of.
PS> Actually, I don’t think you are REALLY that naive that you believe everything you are told by your illustrious leader. (Pls. correct me if I’m wrong?))


If no one gives a shit how the US feels then why does our president keep getting invited to international summits? If our international leadership is so in question why do world leaders still meet with him and call him on the phone? Seems to me if our leadership role is diminished the rest of the world should ignore us. But they can’t because you all need us.


Thanks for the correction.


Guys, I was there in Hamburg. I am happy that they still meet and speak. Under any circumstances.


Back to China and the development there:

See how Chinese cities have developed over the last few decades: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/24/ar...nes/index.html

The amazing architecture of some of the new skyscrapers are mind boggling, maybe especially in Shenzhen, where there were nothing but a few small fishing villages and market towns as late as in the mid 1960’s and early 1970’s, when I first traveled though there on the way to/from other places in China by train from Hong Kong.

Even in the early 1990’s when I first spent some time there it wasn’t much except around the ferry point in Shekou, near the Luohu border crossing and some low factory buildings dotted around, especially in Chiwan. https://randomwire.com/tag/development/page/2/


Forward thinking pays off long term; in China 100 years is a blink:



China is aggressively expanding it’s Merchant fleet, both under Chinese and foreign flags: http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/vigorous-expansion-in-the-china-owned-fleet/
Aiming to become the largest shipping nation in the world?


So, US is complaining about China not doing enough to protect the environment??
China has had enough of the US exporting it’s trash and environmental problems to China: http://www.seanews.com.tr/beijing-starts-banning-american-recyclable-scrap-imports/169504/

Here is why:


it’s morally reprehensible that we hide all those hazardous materials in waste just to cause all that smog over there.


This is pretty funny. Chinese made vitamins and other medicines and foods exported to the US have been found to be contaminated with lead paint, cardboard, chemicals and various other harmful substances. My doctor told me not take anything made in China.

I think the largest US exports to China are scrap paper and scrap metal.

I agree that our scrap paper and scrap metal should be recycled and turned in useful products right here in the US. I’m also confident that we could live with very few Chinese imports, and fewer Chinese ships delivering them.


You mean to say that China is returning the favour??

Actually I though the US would have very good and strict control on any foodstuff being imported from abroad. Thus anything of the nature you describe would be stopped at the border?

One of the main stumbling blocks for trade agreements with US has been gene manipulation, (know as “Frankenstein food”) growth hormones in meats and “chlorine-washed” chickens being exported from the US. Most other countries do not want to allow them, but pressure from the US has lead to some compromises. Most notably in the TPP, which Trump scrapped.


You obviously didn’t manage to export enough of the problem: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-air-quality-heat-20170615-story.html


I’m choking on all this polluted air here in the states as I lament we couldn’t even crack the top 100 on any of these lists.



As said above, American produces the most pollution per capita. Whilst China produces the most pollution over all.

The other statistic needed is that at present, most of China is still very poor by comparison to America so there is limited opportunity for the majoroty of Chinese to buy the sort of lifestyle goods that are associated with high levels of pollution. . But China is developing very very fast. It has a burgeoning middle class who are wanting new homes and shiny goodies, (like X Box, 50" tv etc) to put in them. And why shouldn’t they aspire to a better life?

Now imagine 1bn Chinese who are all as well of as the average American. And think about how much pollution will they create.

The greatest threat to world peace will be if China gets a taste for eating beef.


Yes China produce more air pollution and CO2 over all then any other single country, but far less than any fully developed country per capita. The smog problem is concentrated in and around the big population and industrial centers, in China like in any other country.

Another reason for the problem in Beijing especially is the climate. Very cold winter days without wind , but with heavy traffic cause levels of particle pollution that is WAY above WHO limits, sometimes for days.

But China is doing more about it than most countries, spending huge amounts on infrastructure and clean energy: http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/18/technology/china-us-clean-energy-solar-farm/index.html

But what this discussion was about was pollution of a different kind, in the form of imported scrap being contaminated with pollutants such as PBCs, heavy metals and other dangerous materials. As China is getting richer they don’t need to accept other people’s trash and the pollution that comes with it.
Rich countries like to do so, but they will now have to find other countries to export their problems to. (Africa is open for business)

BTW: The Chinese are already getting a taste for beef, just look at the number of McDonald’s in China and growing by the day: http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/08/investing/mcdonalds-china-new-restaurants/index.html

Luckily for China they can import beef from abroad, thus exporting the problem of methane pollution and water shortage to other countries.

Now also from US, provided the producers there meet certain criteria, incl. against use of growth hormones, which is banned in China: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-beef/u-s-finalizes-talks-to-resume-beef-exports-to-china-after-ban-idUSKBN1932ID


I don’t think we are disagreeing with each other, just highlighting different aspects of the same story.

Yes China is doing a lot to update their energy and other infrastructure. And yes it will help a lot. I am concerned the far greater effect on polution of all sorts will be realised as China matures into a rich country dominated by a wealthy middle class… Like most of Europe and America are now. As you said at the top, the numbers are truly staggering.,


The latest listing of World Ports by volume of cargo throughput has just been issued by Fairplay:

If anybody was still in doubt about China’s position as the largest trading nation in the world, this may be an eye opener.
There are only one port in the Western Hemisphere on the list of 20 biggest ports and none in Europe.


Somewhere on the forum I wrote about how China is geographically hemmed in from the world;s major oceans by states friendly to USA, (Or at least who were friendly)
To get access to a port on the Bay of Bengal coast, with rail, road and pipeline access to China’s inland cities has been a strategic dream for years. Now they have succeeded:

There is also a gas field off the coast of Rakhine State that supply natural gas through a pipeline to China:

My last job in Myanmar was in conjunction with the development of this gas field.


Xi putting his stamp on the country - looks like he is in for the long run:


Here is another side of the Chinese reality. It’s going to take a long time to get rid of old superstition: