U.S. Shipping CEO Calls for Foreign Seafarers Amidst US Merchant Marine Pay

There are a lot of people at OSG who would disagree with much of your rant. I have sailed with both OSG and Crowley as a senior Engine officer and I know firsthand what you said isn’t always the case. While OSG is responsible for much of the culture onboard their vessels, it can be ship and crew dependent on how mariners are treated on each vessel. I personally know guys at OSG that have zero business is ailing in the capacity they are and OSG is complicit in keeping them in those positions because of the mariner shortage.

You didn’t say what position you sailed. Suck up in fear? I don’t even know what to tell you about that. Man up maybe? OSG is a shipping company just like Crowley. I imagine if you look at both companies you would see good and bad at both. Crowley pay sucks. You complaints about that?

Sam Norton is an idiot. He should have known better than to say what he did and how it would affect the guys working there. EVERYONE on his ships are against this idea. There is no upside. Honestly he should probably resign.

3rd mate- 900-1000 a day
2nd mate - 1100- 1250 a day
Chief mate - 1350-1550 a day
Master - 1800-2k a day

These should be wages for ship officers. This makes it more with while.

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This pay conversation is a never ending merry go round. US mariner pay will never be inline with Pilot pay. Being a mariner is relatively simple, schooling and training is by no means rocket science, we are a blue collar trade and will continue to be paid as such.

I remember the Seadrill entrance, as I was one of the first US employees, leaving TOI, it was a great time, pay was doubling, you even had a company come in and offer $199k for a SrDPO, they were building in Singapore as well too. Basically taking off your Seadrill coveralls and walking next door, some will remember that company. Those times are over for now, but they were fun, making over $300k as a C/M and close too $370k as Master/OIM.

OIM’s are still making around that. Those times are not over.

Oil patch is up and down that’s normal.

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Than that would be recently that salaries have gone back up, because thats not the contracts I have seen.

Yes that is true, not only for USA but for all rich countries. Most also need migrants because of falling birthrate and aging populations. At the same time there are strong resistance against allowing migrants in to alleviate the problem.

BTW; how many migrants comes with STCW credentials that is acceptable to USCG?

Also I would go out on a limb and say OIM’s are not as big a part of the shipping world that we are looking at. They’re like oil executives almost idk. I could be wrong. I think the gold standard is to look at an APL, Matson, Maersk, Seabulk, Crowley, and see how it all stacks up. From AB to Master. And Motorman to Chief.

Very few. UK, Canada, Norway I believe can get a USCG reciprocal license.

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I would never use “gold standard” as a reference to anything commercial shipping.

I do agree with you on that. It is a very small sample size which are attached to extremely high day rates. So, if you look at daily opex, thats where you have to base salary on.

I haven’t been on here in ages but my nephew works fo OSG and WOW our boy Sammy Norton, right, decides he’s gonna be the big man on campus and sends this email, no kiddin’, to the whole freakin’ fleet in the dead of night, sayin’ Konrad’s full of it. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Now, sure, maybe Konrad’s got his head in the clouds sometimes, but the guy never called Sammy a “sell out”

And Sammy claims Konrad can’t “think outside the box”, oh man, he don’t know Konrad. Our boy johnny’s so far outside the box – he’s practically livin’ out there!

Keep digging Sammy

From: Norton, Samuel snorton@osg.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 7:41 PM
To: USFleetCaptains UsFleetCaptains@ships.osg.com
Cc: Tampa Staff Tampa_Staff@osg.com; Beaverton Staff Beaverton_Staff@osg.com
Subject
Subject: G-Captain Article Re My Comments on Seafarer Shortages

Ladies and Gentlemen –

A G-Captain article penned by John Konrad yesterday has received much circulation both within and outside our community. The article centers on comments that I have made at recent conference advocating for consideration of a targeted visa program to sponsor foreign nationals for citizenship in the US for individuals with the experience and skill sets to help broaden and deepen the pool of mariners required to accelerate the expansion of US flag vessels. This goal has been both a priority of objectives that I have been focused on for the past 8 years as well as a critical need voiced by many of the Congressional and Department of Defense allies with whom we communicate and who are key champions of sustaining a viable and effective US marine industry. I believe that Mr. Konrad’s article contains numerous inaccuracies and misrepresentations, not the least of which is to misconstrue my comments as an effort to “sell out” our existing crew members to obtain the benefits of lower cost foreign alternatives. Nothing could be further from the truth. The goal of what I am calling “immigration as an option” is to augment a clearly under-resourced maritime labor pool as a bridge to accelerate the introduction of more US flag vessels and more US maritime jobs. This is not an “either/or” concept, but rather a “both/and” one. To be clear, anyone sponsored for a visa who would qualify to work on a US flag vessel would, where applicable, join the appropriate union representing that skill set and rank on any of our vessels, and receive the same wage and benefit package as is and would be received by an existing US seafarer filling that billet. The number of such visas to be granted could be decided upon and agreed as between industry and union leadership based on an objective assessment of the expected medium-term shortfall of available US mariners. This idea is not to gain economic advantage by tapping foreign labor. It is instead an attempt to stimulate a conversation of addressing what all acknowledge is a critical problem in a manner where success in building a more robust US mariner pool is done without doing harm to existing participants in that pool.

Later this evening, I will be posting the comments on Linked-In in response to Mr. Konrad’s article. It is valid and expected that differences of opinion can and will exist on this topic. But I also believe that it is important that my comments not be inaccurately framed by someone who does not appear to want to recognize the benefits of thinking outside of the box in working to solve a pressing industry concern.

Anyone who would like to voice their concerns and/or to criticize the true intent of my comments is welcome to email me directly. Having an open conversation that recognizes the complexity of the issues involved and is entered into in the spirit of generating real solutions that would benefit the long-term health and effectiveness of the US maritime industry is an important process in working towards a good solution. I welcome constructive input from any who wish to offer it.

My response to be posted on Linked-In is provided below for ease of reference.

“The mariner shortage is a crisis demanding solutions. Cooperation among all stakeholders to accelerate these solutions is necessary. The suggestion that US mariners are under compensated and that simply raising wages will solve all problems fails to address the core issues head on. The issue is far more complex.

An accelerated expansion of US maritime assets and the pool of qualified seafarers is a key strategic objective in meeting, in particular, the country’s national security needs. The urgency with which to address this problem has never been more acute. The facts are that virtually all service industries today - including the armed services with the exception of the Marines - face serious recruiting challenges and ongoing manpower shortages. MARAD estimates the current shortage of US mariners at close to 2,000 persons. That figure understates the scale of the problem. Plans to expand the Tanker Security Program, develop offshore wind resources, and build out alternative fuel bunkering and supply capabilities in the years ahead will further tax severely overstretched resources. There will be a need for thousands of new mariners to fill these jobs.

The idea of sponsoring qualified foreign mariners for citizenship is but one idea amongst many intended to address the current labor shortage. The concept is to develop and implement a targeted visa program, offering a fast track to citizenship, for individuals with the specialized skill sets needed to serve on tankers in order to bridge the gap between current shortfalls and the development of long term US merchant maritime needs. Immigration as an option is not proposed as a means to use foreign labor to depress wage and benefits or to supplant the existing workforce. Recipients of any such visa would receive wages and benefits as they exist on US flag vessels.

According to a recent study carried out by MARAD on behalf of Congress, US flag operating costs exceed comparable costs on foreign flag vessels by an estimated $7.5 million per vessel per year. As I have written and spoken about in many forums, the reasons for this differential are valid. OSG has been at the forefront in promoting and supporting laws and programs that allow US maritime businesses and the US jobs they support to exist despite these differentials. OSG’s mariners possess highly valued skills and remarkable dedication. We work closely with the union leaders who represent these seafarers to ensure fair and competitive wages and benefits consistent with a goal of sustaining a viable business model.

The broad vision is for an expanded and effective US flag fleet supporting economic and national security. More ships and more jobs in the long run – that should be the focus in preserving the future of US maritime. Exploring all options to achieve this vision should be a priority.”

Sam

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oh man

For the record I chatted with Mr. Norton via social media yesterday and he certainly didn’t ask for any corrections.

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@john can you post the contents of the Tradewinds article that you referenced? Most of us don’t have any access to that expensive shit lol.

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If American mariners had wage parity with American longshoremen —as they should— there would be absolutely no shortage of mariners within a couple of years.

I know US/Canada dual nationals that sail on US vessels. There are a lot of Canadians that also have US citizenship. I know US/UK dual nationals and US/Norwegian dual nationals that sail US.

There are already a lot of Green Card foreign nationals sailing as unlicensed ratings on US ships.

Raise wages first. Give the law of supply and demand a chance to work. Then if that does not alleviate the “mariner shortage,” look at other options.

The USCG should make its regulations more like Canada, the UK, and other countries so that small vessel mariners can move up to unlimited tonnage.

Im shocked that he has been the one writing his content, not many top executives actually write their own posts on LinkedIn. I know, cause I was one once. I got a guy if anyone is interested.

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That is correct and respectful because Mr. Norton isn’t a sailor

But this? Listen up, Norto! You see I get to throw around nicknames like they’re goin’ outta style. Johnny, Johno, Jon boy – you name it, I can pick whatever moniker I like because I got loads of pilot seatime and Johnny barely got his skippers license wet.

But you, my friend? When you’re writing disgraceful lies about John, it’s “Captain Konrad” with all the bells and whistles. You may salute too if you wish but no short cuts, no buddy-buddy business. The man’s ain’t got much time as master, but he served over a decade upon oceans and has seen some real shit at sea. You have not. Respect the rank, capisce? It’s all about the sea cred, buddy boo. He’s got more than most landlubbing keyboard warriors and you got none. Keep saving those millions for an unlimited sized private yacht and you’ll get that big ticket too, but until then, it’s Captain Konrad to you, Norto. Welcome aboard, and keep it tight, like your a****

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That is on the lower end for 1AE in MEBA… 240k is about right if you want to fill that slot maybe more for a 12hr work day plus manuv and alarms… last I checked they didnt pay for working more than 12hrs a day

Matson has no issues finding 1AE of their choosing

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Welcome back Joe, :roll_eyes: we missed you like a covid shot

:rofl:

None, which is why this guy is asking for a waiver.

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