Just curious how the ability to live anywhere has changed. It hasn’t changed at my gig, we can live anywhere in the US and company pays travel every 28 days.
Isn’t MM&P part of ILA already? I know their Atlantic Maritime Group (previous Local 333 in NY) was.
And again, where’s the leverage? Can the majority of manners afford to stay on a strike?
it changed for those not sailing who can now work remote for many jobs. It was a perk for sailors - now not as much
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That’s the primary issue.
Every shipping company is afraid to raise wages because they all witnessed what happened when seadrill started offering higher wages to poach transocean employees 15 years ago. They were a tiny company then but everyone had the raise salaries or lose crew. Wages went through the roof.
As such no US flagged shipping company is going to volunteer to be the one who kicks off a wage war.
These companies are tied to the hip by US flagged k-street lobby firms - often under the auspices of Jones Act protection groups - who help coordinate the industry segments. I certainly can’t say they intentionally collude on wages but at the very least they do organize industry lobby events where CEOS get to share notes.
These groups also use fear to put our attention on fighting Jones Act attacks which do a great job lining up everyone - labor, government, executives, etc - on the same side. This is primarily a good thing for the US mariner but it’s had the adverse effect of making everyone close friends who meet in backrooms and share expensive cocktails at $10,000 per plate awards dinners (the us flag shipping industry has an absolutely ridiculous number of awards dinners).
Just one company can start a wage war but doing so would get you a lot of dirty looks at the awards dinners which are the social tool the industry uses to congratulate people who play by the rules.
Seadrill was able to do it because it was a shipping company formed by shipping magnate John Fredriksen. He wasn’t a member of the Houston old boys club and he understood that higher wages hurt his competitors (Transocean had dozens of drillships and modus, Seadrill started with just a few) a lot more than it hurt him.
So no shipping company is going to voluntarily raise wages unless they are brand new (maybe Rose Cay maritime could) and are looking to punish the big guys. So it has to come from the unions. Unfortunately, however, unions seem to love getting industry awards and invitations to smoke-filled-rooms too. Vocak himself just got a big USS ADMIRAL OF THE OCEAN SEA award.
The good news is it doesn’t take much to get the ball rolling. If any union negotiates just one or two large salary increases wtih small companies, everyone is going to start demanding higher wages. This is because “sense of fairness” is a very powerful core human emotion that resonates strongly with everyone.
Bottom line is wages have been suppressed for so long, us shipping companies are making so much money, and the crewing crisis is so deep that the wage issue is sitting atop a massive precious. IMHO it will just take a feather to break this camel’s back.
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It has been my opinion for some time that the JA has stopped helping US sailors some time ago. It is first and foremost a shipyard subsidy. It seems a very tiny thread to me the slippery slope argument that if you allowed foreign built ships in, even with a mandate for US crews, in no time at all that mandates would be gone.
I also always believed the shipyard lobby needed the sailor union support on the hill way more than the sailors needed them. The “we are supporting the sailors” plays way better than “we are supporting 2-3 shipyards”
It is time for serious and thoughtfull JA reform. And enough of this hanging on to some status quo that just is not working.
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A year or so ago Rose Cay was offering $892 a day. No overtime or vacation pay. They do not arrange or pay for travel, but they pay a $75 per diem for travel (which should normally more than cover the cost). That’s not bad, but nothing to get too excited about either.
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Not to mention that those shipyards are foreign owned. Profit (if any) goes to over paid management and foreign shareholders.
PS> In some cases the majority shareholders are foreign Governments.
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“Temporary” foreign mariners is the fox in the henhouse and there is no way to put that genie back in the bottle.
I haven’t heard any details on how this would work.
Would they be paid equal to current wage scales for US Mariners? Would they work even time or would they follow the traditional foreign schedules of 8-9 month contracts? Even foreign mariners make good money for where they are from even though it is often termed “slave wages” here on gCaptain so american wages for american schedules is going to feel like they won the lottery. OSG could pay them half what they pay americans and they would still have a deluge of applicants.
I don’t understand how this is a solution even. Once you open pandora’s box like that how do you end this “temporary” program? Let’s be honest, without a good paycheck for being gone that much why does anyone go to sea? If wages go down from where they are now you will see less and less americans at sea and and more and more foreigners needed to fill the gap. This is the canary in the coal mine for other segments and not just deep sea. It would not take long before foreign mariners started showing up in significant numbers inland and well as offshore.
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Funny thing is, even if they’re paid current US market wages, it still suppresses wage growth by increasing the labor supply.
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If “temporary” foreign seamen are allowed, where will American seamen get the seatime and experience to move up?
If we wanted to reduce marine transportation costs, the only sensible place to start would be with foreign longshoremen.
If we wanted to hold the line on government spending, hire more competent remote workers in India that speak better English and have advance math and computer skills for 10% of current Federal wages.
If we bring in more “cheap” foreign workers, we are going to have more unemployment and underemployment with more people that need government assistance programs. This is a losing strategy.
The USA is approaching its Roman Empire moment.
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Don’t know if I have mist it, but where are OSG planning to get these seafarers from?
There is a worldwide shortage of seafarers with the qualifications required to serve on vessels under US flag: eCFR :: 46 CFR Part 11 Subpart J -- Recognition of Other Parties' STCW Certificates
It has been stated that any foreigner employed on US-flag ship will be hired on “US terms” and paid “US wages” and only be allowed to serve on foreign voyages, not in US waters.
Not sure if that is the terms and conditions of any one of the many unions, or whatever applies to others in the same company, or on individual ships?
Not ALL “foreigners” are the same. Is it a given that only seafarers from “3rd world” will be considered?
FYI: Many shipping companies hiring seafarers from “3rd world” countries offer terms and condition over and above what is stated as minimum ITF contract terms.
Many companies are offering even time and permanent employment, with paid leave.
Here is the IBF Framework Agreement for 2024-27:
Most Flag states are signatories to the MLC’06 Agreement w/amendments:
https://www.ilo.org/dyn/normlex/en/f?p=NORMLEXPUB:91:0::::P91_SECTION:MLCA_AMEND_A2
PS>That doesn’t mean that there aren’t examples of “slave wages” and ill-treatment of seafarers, but it is not as if that is universal for all “foreigner seafarers”.
Your buddy is off a little. Looking at my paystubs since July, 210k is a little high. Not much but a little after working dues… The mates are not signing with MEBA. MM&P (Tom Larkin) although the lesser of the union options, are more in contact with the mates and the younger guys are getting questions answered by them where MEBA has fumbled the opportunity to communicate. Generally speaking from what I have heard and conversations with our mates, the older guys prefer the status quo and do not want representation. The younger guys are open to unions and lean towards MM&P.
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According to his stated plan, yes. But bringing in foreigners accomplishes the goal of stopping raises so effectively depresses wages.
Yes but his plan includes them moving to the US and gaining citizenship via their service onboard.
It isn’t. It’s a solution to the problem (problem to the owners) of needing to increase wages to attract workers.
He doesn’t want it to end until there’s an oversupply of workers again so the owners can underpay, overwork, and abuse their employees and the workers just need to take it like good serfs or be easily replaced.
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That’s exactly what the companies want!
They want you to fear for your job daily and be grateful to them for the opportunity to work for them for whatever they’re willing to pay you.
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You now have me curious what kind of looks Sam Norton will be receiving at these dinners.
They’d have no shortage of properly credentialed foreigners looking to earn current American wages.
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The one thing America still has in great abundance is a lot of people around the world want to move here and become citizens. This has been the case for centuries and there is no end in the foreseeable future. We literally have hundreds of thousands of walking from South America just to enter the country.
I bet if OSG offered minimum wage plus citizenship we would still get tens of thousands of applicants.
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He’ll probably win twice the number of awards for saying exactly what most shipowners wanted to say but didn’t have the guts to. And if he does get dirty looks he can just buy a few awards from non-profits willing to sell.
Many of these things are designed to boost a companies ESG/DEI score or repair bad reputations. Never forget that Tote won the big humanitarian award the year after the El Faro.
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Approaching?? lol