the first call was 0700 but what was the time of the second call where Davidson is obviously scared to death and knows he is in deep shit? We know now that the ship didn’t drift for a long time at all and the loss was likely immediately after that second call?
Did the QI actually speak to the master? This is not clear and if he did where is that recording? Also, where does the issue of a lube oil failure to the turbine (or was it an overspeed trip?) ever get mentioned? I did not hear that in the second call?
I do want to say that the second call was painful to listen to. I cannot imagine the terror filled thoughts going through Davidson’s mind as some obtuse phone operator who is obviously unaware that the call is even an emergency one wastes precious time. BUT THEN AGAIN WHY WAS DAVIDSON CALLING THE OFFICE WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN CALLING OUT A DISTRESS?
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;179649]Agreed it all comes down to why she was in the path of the hurricane and why did they lose propulsion. Everything else is not of any major consequence.[/QUOTE]
I am beginning to suspect incredible motions of the ship cause the propulsion failure (whatever it was) and that the time from going DIW to knocked over was not long at all. I suspect very soon after the second phone call which explains not mustering people and that more bodies found floating because they are all inside the ship still. It also points to the catastrophic shifting of cargo because that might have only taken a few seconds to lay the ship’s superstructure underwater. Gradual flooding and loss of stability would not be so instantaneous. Also the fact there was no distress sent spells catastrophic cargo shifting in my book.
[QUOTE=c.captain;179658]I am beginning to suspect incredible motions of the ship cause the propulsion failure (whatever it was) and that the time from going DIW to knocked over was not long at all. Soon after the second phone call.[/QUOTE]
It is possible. I don’t think we will know for sure without the VDR.
I did catch that Captain Davidson did say “Mate, what else do you see down there?” Obviously the chief mate went down to look at things as best he could.
The assumption that the ship had “incredible motions” is not necessarily a good one. First off the seas at the timewere reported to be 10 to 12 feet.
In a recorded satellite phone call to the emergency call center of TOTE Maritime, the ship’s parent company , at 7 a.m. Oct. 1, Capt. Michael Davidson of Windham told the operator he had a maritime emergency. He reported there was a hull breach, a scuttle had blown open and there was water in hold No. 3, according to the NTSB. A scuttle is a hatch or port.
Davidson also said the ship had lost its main propulsion unit, and the engineers could not get it going. The captain estimated the seas to be 10 to 12 feet at that time, according to the report.
Secondly, the relationship between GM and rolling, this is Stability and Trim for the Ship’s Officer, second edition:
Effect of GM on rolling. The first point to be made quite clear is that GM is by no means the only factor involved in the manner in which a ship rolls, although it is an important one. We know that with increased metacentric height a vessel will roll more quickly; that is, her period of roll in seconds will be short. The effect of GM on amplitude is less well known. It should be clearly recognized by ship’s officers that a stiff ship in heavy weather not only has a short period of roll but also a large amplitude. Conversely, a tender ship is apt to have a long period of roll with small amplitudes.
To understand the reason why a large GM produces large amplitudes, we can compare a stiff ship with a raft. The raft as a type of vessel represents the acme of stiffness. And how does a raft behave in waves? Does it not assume exactly slope of the seas, thus inclining to large amplitudes? The stiff ship attempts to do the same. She is quick and alive, responding immediately as a wave rolls up her side and under her bottom. The stiff ships bobs about like a cork. The tender ship, on the contrary is sluggish. She lags behind the motion of the waves and thus tends to roll to lesser amplitudes.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;179665]The assumption that the ship had “incredible motions” is not necessarily a good one. First off the seas at the timewere reported to be 10 to 12 feet.
Secondly, the relationship between GM and rolling, this is [I]Stability and Trim for the Ship’s Officer,[/I] second edition:[/QUOTE]
I have seen that 10-12 feet estimate and can not see how the seas would have been that small. 10-12 meters maybe. Seas of 10-12 feet would not have caused water to go through an open scuttle.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;179665]The assumption that the ship had “incredible motions” is not necessarily a good one. First off the seas at the time were reported to be 10 to 12 feet.[/QUOTE]
I personally do not believe that less that 60miles from the eyewall of a category three hurricane the seas would only be 10 to 12 feet. Something caused the propulsion to be lost and now it seems to be a mystery what actually happened to cause the loss. If it wasn’t motions it was something else but none of this negates that the ship was taken into too close a proximity to that storm than allowed the ship to survive IF the ship went DIW. That in the end is the whole thing. The ship slowing down and heaving to before passing San Salvadore likely would have meant survival even if propulsion did end up being lost there because the ship would have been more then 100miles from that eyewall in that event.
Let’s all face it…Davidson chose to go to where he did with the ship for SOME reason none of which can be excused. I am now more convinced it was because he WAS DIRECTED to go that route. Why on earth would he have “REQUESTED PERMISSION” from TOTE to use the Old Bahamas Channel for the return voyage if he was truly empowered to make all routing decisions himself? That is a smoking gun if there ever was one that he went the way he did with Joachim directly in front of him! He still thought be might be on one of the new ships and wanted to please the owners by not disobeying. What we will likely never know is if he DID NOT WANT to go north of the Bahamas chain at all on the fatal voyage but overrode his own judgement in bowing to the owner’s demands. Whether he wanted to go another route or heave to now is totally immaterial because he DID NOT exercise his own authority and his duty to say, NO FATHER…WE STOP HERE UNTIL THIS PASSES! The owners directed him to take the ship into peril but his failing to say STOP is what killed everyone of those souls aboard including his own! A horrible legacy to leave after one’s death.
Of course, Davidson could have called mayday and told the USCG that he did not want to take this route for the very reason to point the blame to the culprits even if he knew his own death was assured that morning. Instead he made the useless call to TOTE instead which further points to a man more willing to please the boss than to do the right thing by his duty which was to put out a distress call the moment the ship went DIW! We do know now from the second call that he knew ship ship was in distress and very likely about to be lost. What would he have expected TOTE to do to pull his ass out of the fire? Hell, even the USCG wouldn’t have been able to save the crew but at least the reality of the situation could have been transmitted for the record and to make people hang in Jacksonville. If I knew I was about to die, I’d sure as HELL would want to get something on record why it had happened!
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;179669]I have seen that 10-12 feet estimate and can not see how the seas would have been that small. 10-12 meters maybe. Seas of 10-12 feet would not have caused water to go through an open scuttle.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I don’t see how a 12 foot sea would have come on deck? But I haven’t seen any other estimate however. The one thing that come to mind is pitching into a swell.
We are talking about at the time of the first call.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;179671]Yes, I don’t see how a 12 foot sea would have come on deck? But I haven’t seen any other estimate however. The one thing that come to mind is pitching into a long swell.
We are talking about at the time of the first call.[/QUOTE]
There was a short time between the call just after 7 and when the EPRIB went off. The weather didn’t go from 10-12 feet to “oh god” that quickly. Remember the 2nd mate’s email said that the wind was really bad way before the phone call. This accident had begun before the first call was ever made. Once propulsion was lost, their fate was more or less sealed.
They apparently had boiler issues…slag buildup in the burner throats, etc…none deemed “show stopping”
to those not familiar, the burner throat in a boiler is part of the interface between the burner and the furnace and has a cone shape made of refractory materials designed to direct the flow and mixture of fuel and air (in conjunction with other parts) into a distinct pattern. So…if there is fuel/slag buildup, cracking, etc in the throat you will probably have problems with the flame itself.
Here’s a pic of some workers actually shaping in a throat. The shape is determined by the boiler mfg. Any major repairs or replacement have to conform to this specification.
I don’t really know what happened so at this point I can’t say for sure the sea height is incorrect. I see from the twitter feed this:
Davidson indicated fairly minimal seas, 12-15 foot seas, winds of 50-70 knots that were tropical storm or category 1 strength #ElFaro
Perhaps the seas had not had a chance to build. My experience in Alaska is that the seas can in fact go from OK to “oh shit” very quickly. A matter of minutes.
Let’s all face it…Davidson chose to go to where he did with the ship for SOME reason none of which can be excused. I am now more convinced it was because he WAS DIRECTED to go that route. Why on earth would he have “REQUESTED PERMISSION” from TOTE to use the Old Bahamas Channel for the return voyage if he was truly empowered to make all routing decisions himself? That is a smoking gun if there ever was one that he went the way he did with Joachim directly in front of him! He still thought be might be on one of the new ships and wanted to please the owners by not disobeying. What we will likely never know is if he DID NOT WANT to go north of the Bahamas chain at all on the fatal voyage but overrode his own judgement in bowing to the owner’s demands. Whether he wanted to go another route or heave to now is totally immaterial because he DID NOT exercise his own authority and his duty to say, NO FATHER…WE STOP HERE UNTIL THIS PASSES! The owners directed him to take the ship into peril but his failing to SAY STOP is what killed everyone of those souls aboard including his own! A horrible legacy to leave after one’s death.
Of course, DAVIDSON could have called mayday and told the USCG that he did not want to take this route for the very reason to point the blame to the culprits even if he knew his own death was assured that morning. Instead he made the useless call to TOTE instead which further points to a man more willing to please the boss than to do the right thing by his duty which was to put out a distress call the moment the ship went DIW! We do know now from the second call that he knew ship ship was in distress and very likely about to be lost. What would he have expected TOTE to do to pull his ass out of the fire? Hell, even the USCG wouldn’t have been able to save the crew but at least the reality of the situation could have been transmitted for the record and to make people hang in Jacksonville. If I knew I was about to die, I’d sure as HELL would want to get something on record why it had happened![/QUOTE]
I agree that he had some reason to be that close to the eye. I believe he got an ass chewing for the Erika voyage and was told not to be late again. I believe that he wanted that job on the Marlin class. I think, he also thought he could out maneuver the Joachim. The problem is that the ass chewing and being told not to be late will probably never show up on paper. Whoever told him such will take it to their grave.
The theory behind calling Tote first is that when you have an incident, the DPA is the one who handles all the phone calls. The master is busy enough when the shat hits the fan, he doesn’t need to be answering the phone with some idiot one the other end asking a hundred stupid questions. I would imagine he was hoping right up until the end that somehow the ship and crew would pull through.
Someone asked earlier about permanent ballast. It was mentioned yesterday or the day before that they did indeed put permanent ballast in her when they conversion.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;179676]I don’t really know what happened so at this point I can’t say for sure the sea height is incorrect. I see from the twitter feed this:
Perhaps the seas had not had a chance to build. My experience in Alaska is that the seas can in fact go from OK to “oh shit” very quickly. A matter of minutes.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but I don’t buy it. Yes, seas can to “oh shit” quickly but that usually is when the wind goes from nothing to howling. A front moving through might do that. When there is a tropical storm out there, seas are are building more as you get closer and closer to the eye. If the winds were 50-70 knots, the seas would have already been higher.
Whether Davidson was trying to downplay the situation or somehow what was said was misheard, I don’t know. I still say no way in hell were those seas 10-12 feet as 7 AM.
[QUOTE=Tugs;179678]Someone asked earlier about permanent ballast. It was mentioned yesterday or the day before that they did indeed put permanent ballast in her when they conversion.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=RespectMyAuthority;179679]Sorry but I don’t buy it. Yes, seas can to “oh shit” quickly but that usually is when the wind goes from nothing to howling. A front moving through might do that. When there is a tropical storm out there, seas are are building more as you get closer and closer to the eye. If the winds were 50-70 knots, the seas would have already been higher.
Whether Davidson was trying to downplay the situation or somehow what was said was misheard, I don’t know. I still say no way in hell were those seas 10-12 feet as 7 AM.[/QUOTE]
I’m not selling anything. There is a difference between it’s never happened to me and it can’t happen. As for the weather I think that’s planned for another hearing. Maybe we will get better info then.
