MMP for Mates, MEBA for Engineers. AMO is an SIU affiliate. AMO lowballs to get contracts,a race to the bottom.
Thanks, I know that is basically how it is. But, I’m an engineer that got into MMP so go figure.
Lowballs like MMP did with the SLNC contract??
Never worked any of those ships, so I can’t comment on what they actually pay, just that it was a really big deal to get new tonnage paying in to the pension. What I wonder is what kind of deal did AMO strike for the later ships that SLNC flagged in? Seriously, no veiled sarcasm, what do those ships pay? Is it lower than the first batch under MMP CBA???
Sadly this is the result of years of inter union raiding. United we stand, divided we fall.
AMO underbid the cable ships and Ogden, in 1984 MEBA underbid the MMP for the tankers.MEBA got the mates jobs in return for a cut in wages for engineers.
Previously the unions negotiated together and every new contract would receive the same increases.SIU under Frank Drozak started underbidding the NMU for
government contracts, their underlings, MEBA2, did the same and transitioned into AMO. The 1980s were ideal times, the big oil companies,Gulf, Texaco, Mobil, started
selling their fleets after the Exxon Valdez. So there were plenty of scab tanker mates around after they lost their “jobs for life”. It all became a race to the bottom.
Even SUP and MFOW, who always had the best contracts, started lowering their standards. The loss of ODS subsidies resulted in big companies such as US Lines, Lykes, Prudential and many others going under. As commercial companies disappeared there was a scramble for government contracts, AMO and SIU would work for peanuts, so
MMP and MEBA1 had to lower the bar and NMU was swallowed up by SIU. It all started going downhill in the 1970s with Frank Drozak.
You obviously do not know your facts or history of those events.
I was there.on picket line in 1984.
I sailed solidly from 1963 to 2010. I was there.
Curious to know what facts are wrong. Frank Drozak offering substandard contracts when Maersk wanted to offload their obsolete ro-ro’s to the Reserve fleet.
MEBA’s proxy union with Chuck Malloy to supply mates to replace MMP mates. MEBA engineers crossing the picket lines. MEBA owned container ships with vertical manning.
SIU with their SMU subsidiary union. MEBA2/AMO underbidding on the cable ships and Ogden ships. Unemployed non-union mates from Gulf, Texaco, Mobil, signing up with
the Chuck Malloy union. Which of these facts are not true?
I too was there. A few things to note…the oil companies began shedding their fleets before the 1989 Exxon Valdez disaster. The “MM&P Tanker strike” occurred, if memory serves, in October 1984 though things started earlier. Shipping got very tight before that. Again, if memory serves, 3rd and 2nd rotary jobs in the MEBA began in 1982 to spread the work. It was a bitter pill for the MEBA to accept those wage and benefit reductions BUT the leadership at the time were all too aware of the number of licenses floating around looking for work. A fact the MM&P leadership were either unaware of or simply ignored. The relationship of Supply and Demand is a very important concept with regards to negotiating strength. When the MM&P lost those jobs, they went non-union. They weren’t MEBA.
As far as race to the bottom goes did you ever sail on any of MM&P owned American Heavy-Lift (ex-Gulf Oil) tankers?
The non-union jobs were Chuck Malloy jobs, they couldn’t be openly MEBA. 1984, I agree Gulf and Texaco were already laying up ships along with Mobil, and shedding jobs.
Some of those engineers manned American Heavy Lift. It was a case of survival for MMP, and $10 million for five tankers and two heavy lift ships from Gulf was a bargain.
I also agree that Bob Lowen the MMP president in 1984 had his head stuck up his ass when he couldn’t see what was coming. I sailed unlicensed Gulf and Texaco, those non-union guys were terrified of the company, ships were laid up, seniority took over, Chief Mates sailing as 3M. I sailed AHL, terrible contract, but after losing 65 tankers, what could they do? You have to remember these were Ronald Reagan years and unions struggled, just look at the air traffic controllers. Reagan went to the NMU convention on the pretext that he was a union supporter, having been head of the Screen Actors Guild. My point being that union raiding cost union members dearly. The Joe Curran, Paul Hall, Jesse Calhoun, Lundeberg, etc, days were negotiated with the same results. 1984 it all changed. I know you don’t agree, but MEBA1 for engineers, MMP for mates were the best contracts, AMO/SIU drove things down. Calhoun and Lowen didn’t like each other and we all paid the price. My best decision was to join MMP and it’s an open honest union.
I don’t know why you believe I think that way.
You yourself said Lowen had his head stuck up his ass in this affair. Maybe Calhoun was on to something in his dealings with him.
I will also add that the AMO during that era was run by the Mackay’s. Much has been said about the AMO here on this forum. IMO, the AMO under its current leadership appears to be doing more for its members than its predecessors.
AMO is still at it. They just tried to raid MMP MEBA for the APL new flagged ships. AFL-CIO ruled against them.