Tier ll

Can someone explain to me the Tier ll “Grandfather Clause”. From what I was told. If your vessel is Tier ll compliant by the end of 2012 the vessel is Grandfathered in.

It will depend on the H.P. rating of the engine, what it is used for and when it was made???

Try these links and see if this helps


Yes the engines are main propulsion on a conventional tug doing conventional tugboat work and were new and installed in 1981 and rated at 940 each. In 2009 we had them rebuilt and upgraded to 1200 each. The upgrades did not bring them to Tier II compliance from what Cummins is telling me. I’ll research the links you sent and I appreciate the help.

Engines were emissions upgrades have been made in the past are typically allowed to run until 2020 regardless of age in California and these are considered the “grandfathered” engines.

All of our EMD engine have either received injector upgrades and a timing retard for the roots blown, turbo and injector upgrades for the turbo engines, and turbo conversions for some of the roots blown engines. They are all “grandfathered” and clear to run until 2020.

My advice, hurry up and upgrade now. Tier 2 doesn’t require exhaust post treatment. Get your engines upgraded and grandfathered before post treatment because that will significantly increase operating costs. We’re getting ready to Tier 2 two Cat 3512’s and we’re going to lose 100 horsepower on an already underpowered boat (though nobody seems to understand that the boat is already underwheeled and nobody is going to notice a 100hp loss). Apparently conversions that increase the horsepower of the engines aren’t really supported by the Carl Moyer funding anymore. I was trying to get our 3512B’s upgraded to C series engines during the next round of overhauls but I don’t think the state of California will pay for that due to the inherent increase in fuel consumption and emissions that follow a horsepower increase.

According to Cummins. There is no way to upgrade the KTA 2300’s that we run in our boat. According to my research and others. The engines we run are prior Tier l.

What are the realities or ramifications if we continue to run these engines?

It would be a shame to take them out of service so soon after they were completely overhauled in 2009 and continue to run like a well oiled machine.

If you run in California hurry up and get your approval for Carl Moyer funding. They only pay for half of the costs at this time where they used to pay for the full cost. The ramification is that you my only be able to run the boat for 300 hours a year if you don’t meet the standards. Look up your regs. It varies a lot based on engine size and horsepower.

Every engine has a phase out date based on its year of manufacture. Our Cat 3512B engines were built in 1998. They are due for phase out in 2015. But, this is the last year for us to get Carl Moyer funding to bring the engines into tier 2 compliance. Bringing into compliance may involve an overhaul but in your case will require engine replacement. Doing the overhaul now in 2012 grandfathers the boat to run until 2020 where we will have to meet Tier 4. Don’t expect to get any money for selling your old engines, they require you destroy the block if you get funding. You are also required to operate in California waters for most of the boats operations.

The problem I am having is finding the regs for these particular engines and the realities of operating in NY and the tri state area.

When I contacted the folks at the Carl Moyer foundation they advised me the program is suspended at this time. But at the same time another individual I contacted through the same method with the Carl Moyer foundation told me the program is still in effect but couldn’t help me with the particulars.

They had a similar program in NY several years ago through the port authority and another agency but they would only help if you installed DDEC’s. I would rather paddle the boat than run those engines. Needless to say that program has come and gone.