The Presidential Candidates and Their Views on the Jones Act

[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;183887]IF that is what he was asking, the answer is that the HMF is only levied on the cargo shipped through the respective port, not the total amount of cargo the ship has onboard.

As far as how Matson and Tote make money, when I worked those trades they primarily carried cargo from a continental port to either Hawaii, Alaska, or Puerto Rico. There wasn’t much carried between continental U.S. ports, between Alaskan ports, or between ports in Hawaii. Not that it wasn’t done, but comparably it wasn’t much.[/QUOTE]

Alaskan and Hawaiian cargoes to/from mainland also enjoy exemption from Harbor maintenance fees (depending).

It’s not so much a “complaint” as its pointing out that in many cases it is what it what it is. No fault of foreign operators, just our domestic gummint.

The usa prints money and swaps it in china for goods.
Sounds like a job for a chinese ship to bring all that stuff to a US port.

[QUOTE=powerabout;183894]The usa prints money and swaps it in china for goods.
Sounds like a job for a chinese ship to bring all that stuff to a US port.[/QUOTE]

They already do, what’s your point?

[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;183887]IF that is what he was asking, the answer is that the HMF is only levied on the cargo shipped through the respective port, not the total amount of cargo the ship has onboard.[/QUOTE]

Are you sure about that?

[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;183938]Are you sure about that?[/QUOTE]

Do you read it differently?

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/283/~/harbor-maintenance-fees-%28hmf%29

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/19/24.24

[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;183942]Do you read it differently?

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/283/~/harbor-maintenance-fees-%28hmf%29

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/19/24.24[/QUOTE]

I had only seen the first link before and this line stood out:

“They are required to pay .125% of the value of the commercial cargo shipped through identified ports.”

Shipped through, not loaded/discharged at. That sounded to me like all cargo on the ship at the time was taxed at each port. Reading the actual law made it a lot clearer, thanks.

(a) Fee. Commercial cargo loaded on or unloaded from a commercial vessel is subject to a port use fee of 0.125 percent (.00125) of its value if the loading or unloading occurs at a port within the definition of this section, unless exempt under paragraph © of this section or one of the special rules in paragraph (d) of this section is applicable.

Around the turn of the century, Trailerbridge was doing quite well on the Jax to San Juan run with container and roro barges. They branched out to a feeder run between Philly, Savannah and Jax. The Teamsters gave them some grief on the feeder runs but with the winter time weather delays, it was hard to maintain a sched to compete with rail and trucks. There was another outfit around the same time that ran from Barber’s cut to New Orleans MGO with a container barge. It also worked well but just a few weather delays were not tolerable to compete with rail and trucks.

[QUOTE=injunear;183945]Around the turn of the century, Trailerbridge was doing quite well on the Jax to San Juan run with container and roro barges. They branched out to a feeder run between Philly, Savannah and Jax. The Teamsters gave them some grief on the feeder runs but with the winter time weather delays, it was hard to maintain a sched to compete with rail and trucks. There was another outfit around the same time that ran from Barber’s cut to New Orleans MGO with a container barge. It also worked well but just a few weather delays were not tolerable to compete with rail and trucks.[/QUOTE]

Weather delay because these were BARGES, or would a feeder SHIP have been equally affected??

Cost conveyance is also holding short sea shipping back. Water is the cheapest way to go by far in terms of tons per mile because ships/barges can carry a lot of it. But cheap is only a concern for low value, high volume/weight cargos. That is why grain, coal, petroleum, etc transportation over distance is by water or rail. High value cargo (containers, cars etc), cost can be passed on to the consumer/buyer very easily because time and inventory management are primary concerns (Just in time logistics). Also, at the end of the day, cargo still has to get on a truck to the final destination. The last figure I recall is 500 miles (New England to Chesapeake Bay) or less was cheaper to truck because of the cost to transfer through a port, as previously mentioned.

[QUOTE=ombugge;183951]Weather delay because these were BARGES, or would a feeder SHIP have been equally affected??[/QUOTE]

Ships would surely be more reliable but it seems no one wants to invest that much with the operating costs. ATBs might fill the gap.

Can say on the NY-Boston-Halifax runs or any combination of the above, from experience, that strong winter storms stop or at least slow down small ships as well as the biggest ATB’s with steep >25’ seas and icing concerns.

The conventional towed container barges are not a reliable solution. On the east coast. The guys out west make them work

[QUOTE=z-drive;184009]The conventional towed container barges are not a reliable solution. On the east coast. The guys out west make them work[/QUOTE]

I know with Dunlap’s container barge run to Hawaii it’s not uncommon for a 2 week trip to take 3-4 weeks due to storms. Sometimes the vessel spends a number of days going backwards…

Did the Southeast run for Columbia Coastal, Charleston, Savnnah, Miami, back to Charleston, then Wilmington, Savannah, Miami. It has it moments but sucks after a while for getting any sleep.

Container ATB’s would be great but I don’t see it happening any time soon, or ever. That McAllister project will never come to fruition, it was little more than a PR stunt.

http://wp.me/p3k7lL-4K0

Jones Act barges [B]NY-Houston[/B] are still a lot cheaper than Rail or even Pipeline

[QUOTE=z-drive;184009]Can say on the NY-Boston-Halifax runs or any combination of the above, from experience, that strong winter storms stop or at least slow down small ships as well as the biggest ATB’s with steep >25’ seas and icing concerns.

The conventional towed container barges are not a reliable solution. On the east coast. The guys out west make them work[/QUOTE]

When you have called in Halifax,
You must have experienced a “Nor-easter”…

An excellent commentary.

Trucking is said to be "the backbone of the economy."
Once governments will introduce carbon taxes do you see water transportation gaining more ground ?

[QUOTE=Colston1285;183081]There’s still no way in hell I’m voting for that lying scumbag CUNT, period. :)[/QUOTE]
I second that emotion…