How do you get time behind the wheel to accomplish a TOAR?
If you aren’t allowed to drive, what do you do?
Is one evolution enough be judged proficient?
Whose standards are you being judged by?
More thoughts, questions?
[QUOTE=cappy208;32818]How do you get time behind the wheel to accomplish a TOAR?
**by gaining the confidence of the DE
If you aren’t allowed to drive, what do you do?
**try to resolve the issue by discussing the matter with the DE
Is one evolution enough be judged proficient?
**yes if you are proficient with evolution
Whose standards are you being judged by?
**the TOAR as interpreted by the DE (this should be less subjective/more objective than it sounds)
More thoughts, questions?
**for all those wannabes out there that expect to step from the dock and go directly to the wheelhouse…“you must learn to crawl before you walk and learn to walk before you run”…there are very few “short cuts” in this industry!![/QUOTE]
the original concept of the TOAR was sound…too bad the USCG allowed industry management to mangle, pervert, and bastardize it!!
**just my humble opinion as a DE!!
Seadawg:
Obviously you aren’t the target audience of that post, But never the less your answers reflect the reality. I was trying to get some response from others who keep browsing the forums getting input/feedback on the toar program.
I have had two TOAR candidates who were unable to fathom these issues. It seems to me there is a lack of reality amongst some candidates who feel that because they are an apprentice, and I am a DE that I should simply sign, and move over for them. I find no (little) understanding that this is a performance issue with the candidate being the motivator/ responsible party.
I find it endlessly frustrating how some candidates for the wheelhouse don’t get it. The thing that gives the DE an indication of one’s maturity and readiness to steer is directly reflected by how good a deckhand they are first and foremost, it is not the fact you hold an Apprentice Steersman Ticket. Anyone can get the paper. Being a skilled deckhand is a prime indication that you “get it”.
The apprentice is the responsible party when it comes to putting in the time and becoming proficient with their skills. If they don’t show up, I won’t drag them by the ear into the wheelhouse. If they aren’t willing to put in their time, they might as well memorize the phrase “would you like fries with that?”. If the DE isn’t letting you steer, you need to find out why and do what’s necessary to [I]get trained[/I] and [I]then [/I]signed off. And if they think I’m signing them off for showing up, let me clear that up right now. If I’m putting my name on your TOAR, I’m stating that I’m satisfied that you understand and can perform the maneuver competently. You have to do it, not talk it…You’re not entitled to anything you haven’t earned.
Demonstrations of the listed items must show [I]competence[/I] not expertise. It takes years to become an expert. One may have to perform the maneuver over and again before the DE is satisfied. I’m a DE, if I don’t think you have the chops, I’ll just let you get in a little more practice before you try again. Training and evaluations are distinctly separate intervals. I’m not signing you off because I watched you train or while you train, I have to look at your performance without offering you any instruction or guidance (short of injuring someone or something).
To any and all TOAR Candidates, put in the time and learn the trade. Stop whining about how you can’t get signed off. If you’re not getting signed off, it’s up to you to find out from the examiner where you are falling short and fix it.
Further, I will clearly state that if you expect to be signed off in thirty days, you may want to get your head examined. The skill sets listed in the TOAR involve conditions that must be met. High wind, current, traffic and more. I have yet to see any candidate who can handle all of these scenarios after stepping aboard a tug for the first time, you may have been Master of the USS United States, but that doesn’t come close to qualifying you to handle the assist tug on the port bow.
[U][B]industry management [/B][/U]There’s an oxymoron for ya! more like industrial mismanagement!
The thought on this thread was to involve the TOAR candidates themselves, without bashing them, but to give clear, short constructive help. Maybe they don’t read this far down the forum list? Who knows!
The target audience is incapable of wading through excess verbiage and DE rants to figure out the straight info.
Let me preface this by apologizing for going a bit off-topic. I’m just a recreational boater, with no aspirations to find work in the industry. I obtained my 100-ton masters license solely to improve my ability to get around the busy harbor and approaches where I sail (San Francisco Bay).
I have always been fascinated by tug boats and have a great deal of admiration for their captains and crews. Once I was treated to a display of maneuvering mastery by a tug showing off for some topless ladies on a boat anchored next to me. I simply could not believe the power and versatility of the tug boat. I’ve always wondered if a ride-along guest is ever allowed to join a tug boat for a day? I have my TWIC to accommodate Homeland Security. Is riding along even possible?
you would have to call the individual company and ask. Most would not allow. But if you phrase it correctly, and have something to offer some will allow it, but you will have to sign an insurance waiver, a covenant not to sue, and legal releases.
Do you know anyone personally who works on tugs? That would be a way in.
by the way, they were NOT showing off for the ladies, they were simply trying to gain a better vantage point to observe the sights. 
Thanks, Cappy. There is a tug company dock not too far from my marina. I don’t know anyone working on tugs, but maybe I’ll try striking up a conversation with some of the hands on the dock for advice about at least getting a tour of the boat.
Okay, maybe “showing off” should have been worded as “testing proficiency during close maneuvers”. As a final exercise for the “test”, this awesome, massive tug slowly and gently nosed up to the sailboat and a crewman came on deck with a bag filled with what looked to be salmon steaks for the women. Now, that’s a class-act tugboat!
It wasn’t my intent to bash.
Before the TOAR, there was precious little in the way of proof the candidate was ready to take a watch. Today, the TOAR is the benchmark that must be met.
“How do you get time behind the wheel to accomplish a TOAR?
**by gaining the confidence of the DE”
[I]If I may add, showing competence on deck is the quickest way to convince the DE you’re a good prospect.
[/I]
“Whose standards are you being judged by?
**the TOAR as interpreted by the DE (this should be less subjective/more objective than it sounds)”
[I]The standard is by nature subjective, the DE is qualified and competent, if he believes that you are he grants his signature.
[/I]
“More thoughts, questions?
**for all those wannabes out there that expect to step from the dock and go directly to the wheelhouse…“you must learn to crawl before you walk and learn to walk before you run”…there are very few “short cuts” in this industry!!”
[I]Well said. The TOAR candidates that might read this would do well to trade information on how they approach their training and sign-offs. It would be helpful to all to get their perspective. I’m certain the DE perspective is fairly well represented, rants and all. My post was intended to add some insight from my perspective as a DE.
[/I]
captbbrucato,
from my perspective…see nothing wrong with your post…it merely gives TOAR candidates further insight into the DE process and the challenges involved!!
[QUOTE=cappy208;32904]The thought on this thread was to involve the TOAR candidates themselves, without bashing them, but to give clear, short constructive help. Maybe they don’t read this far down the forum list? Who knows!
The target audience is incapable of wading through excess verbiage and DE rants to figure out the straight info.[/QUOTE]
**assume you are not implying that TOAR candidates are a bit “thick”??as for “bashing” and “excess verbiage”??in comparison with some threads on this forum<<operative word here…this one is pretty sedate…sorry just don’t see it??would love for someone like “ordinaryseaman” to respond here…but suspect he is pretty busy at present working and learning the necessary skill sets for his TOAR…he was fortunate enough to get into a program that will take him 2 years and not 30 days to complete!!
**the “30 day wonder” concept of “poof ur a tugboater”…now that is very scary and worthy subject requiring a bash/rant at every available opportunity!!!
[QUOTE=cappy208;32893] It seems to me there is a lack of reality amongst some candidates.[/QUOTE]
Not thick, but inexperienced and naive.
OK, maybe I used the wrong ‘verbiage’!! An entry level steersman has to learn and do. It appears to me, both from my experience, and posts on this website, that some candidates have a lack of knowledge of the system, and some have a warped perception of what is expected of them, and what is expected to be given to them.
Some (not all) DE’s are not ‘up to speed’ on how to teach. Some brow beat, some I I I I I to death, and some cannot articulate well enough to adequately teach. One of the most interesting things I have found to deal with is to unteach what some well meaning Captain has ‘shown’ an aspiring mate to do. Or to put in other words, to make a candidate realize that there are many ways to skin a cat, and they have to be aware and observant to make these decisions on their own, and be able to use all these skills to stand their own watch. OH yeah, this CAN’T be done in 30 days, even to someone with a > 200 ton license!
This goes directly to a candidate’s experience on deck. If one has had a decent amount of time on deck, it’s likely he or she will have worked with many different captains and mates on several vessels. This gives a broader view of how different people do similar tasks. The issue of inconsistent teaching skills has been around since forever.
Take what you can from everyone, even if it’s a lesson on what [I]not to do[/I]. That’s usually apparent when things go to Hell more often than not along with yelling, screaming and stamping feet.
Not every captain (as skilled and professional as he may be) is a good teacher. It’s a difficult thing to do since it requires balancing teaching the skills with a little empathy for the student’s perspective. It may be that the really good teachers haven’t forgotten what it was like to be a deckhand and can approach the subject matter in a way that the student can easily relate to. Imparting the necessary information and demonstrating the flexibility of the thought process isn’t easy, making it understandable is the heart of the matter.