Well, that’s a fascinating approach! Every tanker I’ve been on must have been doing it all wrong then, because the Chief Mate was always the “on-scene commander” not the guy babysitting a fire monitor. That task was usually left to the Fire Team or, you know, someone actually assigned to fire suppression, i.e. fire operator.
I am also quite surprised at how Crowley Corporation and/or designated ISM Manager’s “media policy” works in practice. We still missing Facebook photos documenting the “complete shitshow” and crew actions you refer to.
You do realize where and by whom such information can be used, right?
I’ve already pointed out to one of our colleagues that he should seriously think twice before posting videos of daily operations aboard vessels managed by him on social media.
In my opinion, the best solution is to increase the number of proper handheld radios designated for daily use, with two or more units specifically assigned as Fire-Fighter Radios. After all, you don’t seem to have communication issues during maneuvering/cargo operations or bunkering when using your standard radios. And if the handheld radios are of good quality, even a Fireman in full gear (including an SCBA) will be able to communicate effectively.
This has been tested in practice.
Yea. That was my title too. But who’s going to get to the scene faster? The 35 year old semi in shape guy, or the old ass AB who has to get to his fire station and hope that he can get into his fire suit? And then get an SCBA on. And then wait for the other two members of his team to do the same. I usually carried a radio at sea, I could certainly get dressed out faster than the fire teams, and I’d be at the base of the crane before the teams were even ready to go. There’s not much babysitting of a fire monitor - aim at the inferno, open the valve, and get out of dodge.
So you’re right. Not my job. I would have done it anyway. Maybe.
1,000 pct.
My same experience on dry cgo ( container/bulk too) .Never different and it is in all SMS i have seen/read . 7 of them + 3 dowloaded from web for study. 2 were genuine company products the remaining were simply off the shelve products adapted for management requirements. Ch/mate was always on scene commander.
Me too. Remember the ONE Apus shitshow. The pics were plastered over the media before main stream got a whiff of the disaster. With zero pics in the web I suspect thre scenarios :
A) Their policy is air/water tight, they shut down the internet access o/b and the master prior the accident managed to put all mobile phones in the safe and locked them.
B) the shitshow never happened hence no pics
C) The Crowley crews are highly disciplined and trained invdividuals from top to the very bottom , educated and aware that sharing such shitshow pics will surely cause immesurable harm to Owners/operators/managers. .
Which of these three is true? - I do not know while speculating here. Which of them is highly likely or unlikely I will leave to others.
RADIOS:
Solas requirement of some years ago:
Application of Fire fighter’s communication (SOLAS II-2/Reg. 10.10. 4) (1) A minimum of two two-way portable radiotelephone apparatus for each fire party for fire-fighter’s communication should be carried on board . Those apparatus should be of an explosion-proof type or intrinsically safe
Surprised the issue of hand held radios existed in US flagged ships especially on product carriers.
My problem is that I always try to read with comprehension, and as a result, from time to time, I have to take a step back from actively participating in this forum.
On a more serious note, though it was a long time ago, as far as I remember, the role of the “on-scene commander” was about leadership, communication, and - most importantly - following procedures and best industry practices. This included determining the most effective and safest techniques for the firefighting attack team, not racing against your own crew to see who can do something faster.
As I wrote above, there are many things here I don’t understand.
Ok, well, I wasn’t trying to compare station bills, but since you just won’t let it go, here you go.
The Chief Mate was the on scene leader. As you say, responsible for overseeing the scene.
That billet was also part of the Rapid Response Team. You know, to rapidly respond. Faster than everybody else.
Umm… we do have issues. The last three ships I’ve worked on (RORO, bulker, tanker each a separate company) had radio issues. Each of those ships had known dead zones, most commonly getting the signal into and out of the engine room. Cargo on the bulker and tanker wasn’t an issue as the control room wasn’t manned and there was often direct line of sight. Cargo on the RORO frequently required the radio user to change locations or revert to their cell phone.
I’m sure it does and I’m sure it’s beautiful. Does the practice include an accounting department and operating budget? I’ve worked for companies that substituted the 32dB ear plugs for 29dB ear plugs because they were cheaper. Good radios are expensive, cheap radios are less expensive. Which do you think you’re going to get when the company is trying to save money on ear plugs?
Also, which radio are you using with good results with an SCBA? I’ve yet to hear one where the user doesn’t sound like some variation of Charlie Brown’s teacher.
And, to be fair, radios are often one of the most abused tools on the ship. They get dropped, painted on, covered in water, oil, pinched in doors, etc.
Some companies are better than others but my overall experience has been that radios haven’t been all that great. I did work on one RORO that had licensed channels for their radios and a phenomenal repeater system but that ship has been an outlier so far. The ship I’m currently on does have the minimum of four radios set aside (2 for each team). They’re stored conveniently in the ship’s office and not in the turnout gear lockers one deck above and below. Why? Because they were bought as a 4 pack with a 4 bank charger.
I’m actually quite surprised that the pics haven’t hit social media yet. The aforementioned texts included pictures from the aftermath that I haven’t seen posted elsewhere but not of the actual response. Perhaps, and I realize this might be a stretch of the imagination, but perhaps they were too busy responding to take pictures of the event as it unfolded?
I can’t speak for New3m, but I have seen differences in duties depending on ship and company. I’ve seen the CM as “team leader” and “on-scene commander” and “rapid response team”. I’ve also seen ships where the CE was part of the “rapid response team” and not in the engine room for a fire. For a role described as “on-scene commander” or “rapid response team” I would fully expect them to be at the problem before the fire teams have suited up. Now, what they do at the problem is largely going to be up to them and how gung-ho they are coupled with what exactly the problem is. Sometimes the best answer is to back off, but if you can close doors or swing a fire monitor into the general direction as you’re backing off you’re still helping. I don’t think we’re talking about trying to race against the crew.
Out of curiosity and not meant to be a dig, but how long has it been since your boots graced the deckplates?
One man bridge becoming disturbingly common. I have been lied to by Danes, , Norwegians,Russians, Japanese and others claiming they always have lookouts and helmsmen on the bridge…but that pesky BNWAS seems to have quite a workout. Excuses for paperwork etc do not cut it. Blame goes around also to the anchored US ship. Gee where was the bridge watch uhhhhhhh, doing rounds no doubt. For years I was expected to do at least 2 hr or hourly rounds at anchor - no AB assigned, just me and as for the engineers, only one watch officer, no oilers or QMEDs. Should the engineer get caught up in moving or rotating machinery as once happened with no unlicensed in space, he would bleed out. At least when doing rounds on deck with bridge abandoned, I would pop into the engine room and not stop till I found the engineer. But this catastrophe highlighted what could have happened to us, an allision and massive fire and worse with the cargo we were carrying, … Pulled on the green carpet what would or could my response and defence be? Not enough for sure.
Did the crew get off on the free fall stern LB if they had one? Reminded crew a while back that the free fall boat has been used in port to escape ships that have turned into infernos.
Yes the CM usually is the OSC. However on some ships I sailed on the logical deviation was if the fire was a machinery space, CHENG was OSC, all other spaces, the MATE was OSC. Apologies if it makes too much sense.
The concept of the Rapid Response Team has been around for awhile now. Should have been covered in the required STCW Advanced Firefighting class.
I have done several STCW Advanced Firefighting courses, never heard mention of aRapid Response Team, maybe it’s a regional thing.
We don’t have enough crew for that anyway, just 2 x 2 man fire teams with back up.
I’d never heard the term till now either, it was the concept that was covered.
It doesn’t take any more crew. The C/M is still on-scene commander.
I am with you - in my limited experience - the C/M is going to be the first one on the scene - unless someone is already there - and if he is there first and no one is getting water on the fire - he will and should - nothing more important than time - when the rest show up - hand over the monitor and take charge.
You must also consider, we are not on an actively exploding ship, pumped full of adrenaline during routine operations. But even on a good day we are plagued with communication issues, people stepping on each other, people sitting on their radios keying their mics, or when 3 guys are standing around, one one keys up and all you hear is “REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE” from the feedback. The less important people turn their radios down and never turn it back up. Somehow my butt keeps turning off my radio.
But factor in a life or death situation, or now you’re in bunker gear and your mic is banging around, or you can’t understand anyone in an SCBA, and it quickly becomes a shitshow. My takeaway from this, is that it illustrates why the signals are sounded on the whistle and alarm.
Also worth noting, that the average intrinsically safe Motorola is the weakest link in a firefighting outfit, rated to only 140°.
If you have looked at any of the pictures and videos that has been posted here you can see that the Stena Immaculate had a freefall lifeboat and that it was used to escape from the burning vessel.
Most likely there were burning JET-A1 fuel on the water as well, which is one of the reasons why freefall lifeboats are the norm on ships, MODUs and Oil&Gas platforms today.
PS> They hit the water with the engine running and at speed:
Here is one being tested for fire resistance per IMO SOLAS rules:
Beats the old davit launched lifeboats for survivability.
Wonder why nobody called those guys “heroes” ?
Crew extinguishes fire on oil tanker hit by Houthi missile off Yemen coast : NPR
If the FFA like monitors, valves, pumps can be operated remotely from the bridge and/or other locations and drills /tests are done periodically as per regs or company SMS /manufacturer instruction etc,etc, then can activation of such systems in real emcy be considered a “heroic action” or " reflex action" or combination of both.???
Sure thing the investigation will reveal if Stena was fitted with such systems but if she was, then it would be valid to say the meaning of heroism has been greately devalued.