[QUOTE=DamnYankee;187350] It just doesn’t mean a damn thing in the grand scheme if they choose to use that license they’re earning.[/QUOTE]
It means a great deal.
What other “service academy” gives its grads the choice of serving or not?
The American taxpayer is paying for that license under the condition that it be used to support the American merchant marine. If Snowflake chooses not to use that license or has no intent of doing so then Snowflake needs to get Mom and Dad to pay for another school.
Personally, I would prefer to see the entire fraudulent scheme shut down and the property sold off.
What other “service academy” gives its grads the choice of serving or not?
The American taxpayer is paying for that license under the condition that it be used to support the American merchant marine. If Snowflake chooses not to use that license or has no intent of doing so then Snowflake needs to get Mom and Dad to pay for another school.
Personally, I would prefer to see the entire fraudulent scheme shut down and the property sold off.[/QUOTE]
I added the “choose to use license” part as a wink wink, nudge nudge to my comment. I fully understand your concerns with the institution as a whole but I was only trying to comment on the “us vs. them” mentality that is perpetuated until these kids leave the gates of the academy. At that point the only thing that matters is how well you stand a watch, or perform an engine room round, and your ability to stand out as a good shipmate. It doesn’t matter if you even went to a school. If you’re a cracker jack, you’re a cracker jack. That is what they should be telling these kids as they get shoehorned onto these training ships.
The SUNY staff put the word out to the deck and engine cadets to play nice with the KP midshipmen. Any acts of bullying or hazing will absolutely not be tolerated in any shape or form. I wonder if their middies got the same message passed along before they were sent out to join the Empire State? I’d like to think they get along well. Considering how small the industry is already and the likelihood of seeing these folks again someday out in the fleet one would only hope they do. In the past with Cal, Maine and Mass cadets onboard they mixed very well, but some might suggest state school trash have that bond…
You can’t mix cadets on any ship manned by SUP, once you get above 2 cadets their contract will start giving them penalty/OT.
So Matson and APL will never have over 2 cadets on board, one in each department. MSC, NCL, and Waterman I have seen take more than 3 cadets at a time.
I have had Mass, SUNY, CMA, and KP cadets. Probably about 15 KP cadets, of that only two were horrible. Many of the cadets were more competent than the 3rds I had at the time.
While I hope the great cadets will sail, I’m sure some other opportunity will come their way. I keep in touch with most of my cadets and still haven’t seen one join the union and take sailing seriously.
One of my favorite quotes from the book, [I]The Lively Lady[/I], “To my way of thinking a ship is no better than a prison, and those who sail upon her, barring the Captain, do so out of desperation or out of their inability to make a living on land.”
Now I’m a sailor and am going to sail until my union closes its doors or tries to further mess up my pension, but that quote has some truth to it. Much of the real talent that is trained at these academies never make it out to a ship after they graduate as they find gainful employment on land.
[QUOTE=noice;187440]One of my favorite quotes from the book, [I]The Lively Lady[/I], “To my way of thinking a ship is no better than a prison, and those who sail upon her, barring the Captain, do so out of desperation or out of their inability to make a living on land.”[/QUOTE]
I love this quote so much I want it cross-stitched on a pillow. It’s certainly not literally true, but it feels true to me. I know I’m institutionalized, and I don’t care in the slightest. Having a lot of candy bars to choose from, choosing what to wear, figuring out how to sit still in a chair for hours and hours, choosing which vapid blockbuster to see: this is not freedom. Freedom is found in steady, methodical routine, warm comraderie, and machine-shop green paint. Captains with their paperwork, phone calls, radio calls, sometimes passengers, bureaucrats, authorities, dangerously tall stacks of regulations: poor bastards.
[QUOTE=noice;187440]“To my way of thinking a ship is no better than a prison, and those who sail upon her, barring the Captain, do so out of desperation or out of their inability to make a living on land.”[/QUOTE]
Hah! For me it’s the lack of ships on land, and the lack of jobs that enable one to pile up so much money in such a short period of time. Also, as much as I love being home with family and friends, I enjoy having a career/lifestyle that is so completely different from literally everyone else’s.
The state academy ships are all owned, and to some extent maintained, by MARAD. So MARAD should not be paying very much to have the KP cadets sail on them.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;187685]The state academy ships are all owned, and to some extent maintained, by MARAD. So MARAD should not be paying very much to have the KP cadets sail on them.[/QUOTE]
Pure speculation on your part.
However the bigger issue is that MARAD is paying State Schools to accept KP cadets an expense that MARAD normally doesn’t have.
So the American Taxpayer is stuck needlessly paying an additional bill that isn’t necessary.
[QUOTE=leadline;187691]Pure speculation on your part.
However the bigger issue is that MARAD is paying State Schools to accept KP cadets an expense that MARAD normally doesn’t have.
So the American Taxpayer is stuck needlessly paying an additional bill that isn’t necessary.[/QUOTE]
Just pure speculation on my part but since MARAD funds both to some extent maybe they’ll transfer funds from KP budget to the state schools according to some per diem/capita amount for their expenses incurred and KP would have to cut budget in some areas to make it work out for a net zero change. But I doubt it will work that way. So even if it comes from some contingency line item you are right it will probably end up costing more. The whole thing is a big mess.
[QUOTE=ShooterMcGavin;187724]I’m surprised we even had room for them. I was under the impression the training ship at SUNY is manned to capacity these days.[/QUOTE]
Cadet shipping on commercial ships is the way to go for all the academies. The training ships are obsolete and too expensive to operate. In my opinion, commercial shipping is much more valuable cadet training. The sexual harassment problem would be solved the first time the USCG and/or FBI detained a ship to investigate, particularly if someone was taken off in handcuffs.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;187820]I would doubt it, who would pay it. State school cadets don’t get it, and instead get the honor of paying about 6k out of pocket for he honor.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=cmakin;187831]Just putting it out there. . . .[/QUOTE]
I guess stranger things have happened. Never occurred to me that could even be contemplated, and I would think none would have the chutzpah to ask. Still I wouldn’t be surprised if some random mid (or maybe their helicopter mom) would actually ask for it. If they did, it would probably justify a state school cadet-administered blanket party down in #2 hold for the offending KP’er. Likewise, I don’t think Federal taxpayers would appreciate the idea either, if they were ever to learn and comprehend it.
