Shipowners Sue Coast Guard Over Pilotage Rates

[QUOTE=DeckApe;185529]For a proud example of Nordic protectionism wiki ‘Cod Wars’ (Iceland) and to a far lesser degree wiki ‘fisheries case’ (Norway). The Cod Wars are a fine example of how a Nordic nation defended their seafaring citizen’s livelihoods against foreigners who would destroy it. Or google ‘Norway protectionism’. Norwegians, too, are guilty of looking out for their own (as they should!).

What I’m getting at is our Nordic brethren are guilty of selective memory as it suits them. Some of them just don’t want to admit it.

There isn’t much difference in saying foreigners can’t fish in their waters to saying foreigners can’t drill in ours.[/QUOTE]

Foreigners are fishing in Norwegian waters. Nothing wrong with that, as long as they have the necessary permits, quota and follow the rules. I believe the same applies, or at least did apply, to Russians vessels fishing in Alaskan waters and v.v.

As for drilling, there are a lot of foreign Oil companies with concessions and production in US waters. The rigs that is drilling there are technically foreign as well, many owned by Drilling Contractors with American origin and operating HQ, but nominally foreign, with their legal HQ in Switzerland, UK, Irland, UAE & you name it.

Fish that swims within the EEZ, oil, gas and minerals found on or below the seabed, belongs to the coastal state.
But that state has the right to sell concessions, or fishing permits, to anybody they want. They can also allow the concession holder to use foreign vessels and crew to exploit those resources. Most countries do.

Many small island nation has this as their main source of income. American tuna boats fish in waters “leased” this way, as does the Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese etc.
Some don’t bother to buy permits, since these small countries does not have the resources to patrol their EEZ.

We can go on finding something wrong with each other for a long time. There is no limit to what is wrong with everybody else.

[QUOTE=c.captain;185512]I will say this to you SIR! We are mainly US citizen mariners here so unless you like being the skinny guy walking into a biker bar and screaming in a high pitched voice that we are all gay that you be circumspect in you words here because otherwise you best have a good dental plan!

GODDAMNED FOREIGN INTERLOPERS![/QUOTE]
Do you have a problem with a discussion? What is your purpose of posting this? A big circlejerk where all the US mariners can talk about how Trump is going to save your empire?

[QUOTE=DeckApe;185529]For a proud example of Nordic protectionism wiki ‘Cod Wars’ (Iceland) and to a far lesser degree wiki ‘fisheries case’ (Norway). The Cod Wars are a fine example of how a Nordic nation defended their seafaring citizen’s livelihoods against foreigners who would destroy it. Or google ‘Norway protectionism’. Norwegians, too, are guilty of looking out for their own (as they should!).

What I’m getting at is our Nordic brethren are guilty of selective memory as it suits them. Some of them just don’t want to admit it.

There isn’t much difference in saying foreigners can’t fish in their waters to saying foreigners can’t drill in ours.[/QUOTE]

Read about the Collapse of the Atlantic northwest cod fishery and you will understand why it had to be done.
But how is this comparable to what the thread is about? No one argues against US EEZ.

[QUOTE=DeckApe;185529]For a proud example of Nordic protectionism wiki ‘Cod Wars’ (Iceland) and to a far lesser degree wiki ‘fisheries case’ (Norway). The Cod Wars are a fine example of how a Nordic nation defended their seafaring citizen’s livelihoods against foreigners who would destroy it. Or google ‘Norway protectionism’. Norwegians, too, are guilty of looking out for their own (as they should!).

What I’m getting at is our Nordic brethren are guilty of selective memory as it suits them. Some of them just don’t want to admit it.

There isn’t much difference in saying foreigners can’t fish in their waters to saying foreigners can’t drill in ours.[/QUOTE]

Read about the Collapse of the Atlantic northwest cod fishery and you will understand why it had to be done.
But how is this comparable to what the thread is about? No one argues against US EEZ.

Tormund Kraken Giantsbane

Samwell Fraqrat Tarly

This isn’t an argument. It’s a discussion about protectionism/permits/labor/trade. If it wasn’t evident in my post about the Cod Wars I stated (in between the lines) that protectionism can be good and all this talk about open markets for goods and labor can be bad. Of course Iceland had to protect their industry. Bless them for doing it. So some foreigners (British) lost their jobs and livelihoods. That’s not for Iceland to care. Norway locked the British fishermen out of Norway, too, if I understand it. Good. A country should protect the interests of her citizens.

In that way some here feel the United States should do more to protect the interests of our mariners threw labor laws that exclude the citizens of other countries. This leads to them being derided by our Nordic friends for being Trump isolationists and irrational protectionists. It gets tiring.

c.captain started this thread to highlight how our USCG can or should be sued. ombugge, who is usually reasonable and lighthearted, jumped in cussing about protectionism and that was that.

[QUOTE=DeckApe;185545]This isn’t an argument. It’s a discussion about protectionism/permits/labor/trade.

If it wasn’t evident in my post about the Cod Wars I stated (in between the lines) that protectionism can be good and all this talk about open markets for goods and labor can be bad. Of course Iceland had to protect their industry. Bless them for doing it. So some foreigners (British) lost their jobs and livelihoods. That’s not for Iceland to care. Norway locked the British fishermen out of Norway, too, if I understand it. Good. A country should protect the interests of her citizens.

So in that way some here feel the United States should do more to protect the interests of our mariners threw labor laws that exclude the citizens of other countries. This leads to them being derided by our Nordic friends for being Trump isolationists and irrational protectionists. It gets tiring.[/QUOTE]

You are protectionist and isolationist. And some of you are even Trump supporters, retarded as it seems.

Personally I’d like to follow the Icelandic model of firing on and ramming foreign ships that threaten our jobs. It’d be fun! Who’s with me?!

Waste of good ships.

Tarly is a fucking stud, he killed a White Walker and banged the only chick in Castle Black.

c.Hodor.captain

no way, more of a hound I think

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;185553]c.Hodor.captain[/QUOTE]

I mean what in the name of all that is Holy has this thread become?

I know absolutely nothing about Game of Thrones!

Hodor! Hodor!

Hodor!

Isn’t just amazing that a small nation like Iceland, with just over 200K population at the time, with no Navy and totally dependent on maintaining the fish stock in their waters, could take on what was then one of the most powerful nations and biggest Navy in the world?

Even more amazing, they WON!!, both the battle and the war. How often has that happened lately? Maybe it shows that MIGHT isn’t always RIGHT?

What I’m getting at is our Nordic brethren are guilty of selective memory as it suits them. Some of them just don’t want to admit it.
There isn’t much difference in saying foreigners can’t fish in their waters to saying foreigners can’t drill in ours.

Selective memory? WHO? The shortest collective memory in the world belongs not to the Nordics. We remember back to the Viking age, so don’t try to hang your hat here.

Selective memory? Maybe, but only when it comes to wrongs being done to us. We don’t carry a grouch, unlike some we know.

It’s absolutely amazing and I admire them for it. They won repeatedly over several decades by having the will and the balls to stand up for themselves. Good for them!

Now see here. They were protectionist. Free trade theory would have them lease their fishing rights to the Brits who were more efficient by means of advanced technology and industrialization.

This makes them nationalists, obviously, as the Icelandic people put their own needs ahead of the greater international community. Several thousand British lost their livelihoods because of it. Whole towns in Great Britain collapsed economically.

Iceland went so far as to threaten to abandon their NATO allies who unanimously believed Iceland should capitulate. They threatened to expel NATO twice and even courted the Soviet Union for ships to support their resistance. In the end it was the threats against NATO that finally broke Western resistance to Iceland’s demands.

Protectionist, nationalistic, a willingness to stand against one’s allies and the international community to defend their industry and their people. Heroic.

(But when the United States does it or when our political candidates suggest we do it no one has anything nice to say about that. Ironic.)

The Icelandic version of Cod War history: https://guidetoiceland.is/history-culture/the-cod-wars

[QUOTE=ombugge;185577]The Icelandic version of Cod War history: https://guidetoiceland.is/history-culture/the-cod-wars[/QUOTE]

Nice video, the cod wars have to be some of the most embarrassing “wars” Great Britain has ever fought.

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;185564]Hodor! Hodor!

Hodor![/QUOTE]

ENOUGH!

can we please return to the subject of this tread?

[QUOTE=DeckApe;185573]It’s absolutely amazing and I admire them for it. They won repeatedly over several decades by having the will and the balls to stand up for themselves. Good for them![/QUOTE]

YES! To fight for one’s rights is noble and empowering. Our rights as US citizen mariners are being trod upon but we have no recourse to fight physically for them. We can fight legally in courts but we are not a collective willing to pool our resources to do this except through the unions but they have no interest to become involved and expend their money on the fight without a clear payoff to them should they win.

However…the GoM companies do stand to reap rewards if they prevailed in court. To make it more difficult for a foreign vessel owner to operate their vessels in the GoM may cause a few to leave or others to not come leaving more work for the US companies to take. Also, if a foreign operator did decide to remain after losing in court, they would need to find and engage US mariners. The clear source of these qualified mariners would be through the companies here who have them available vis. the GoM operators. These operators could then form shipmanagement divisions to contract with the foreign owners. There would obviously be a markup on the wages paid so a new revenue stream would be created for the companies who clearly need new ways of bringing in cash. The costs to form these management companies would be minimal so no need for capital after the costs of winning a court decision. Also the costs of a court fight would be shared between the companies if the suit were brought by OMSA so no one have to pay for all this by themselves.

Also let me make clear to those who believe that this is a Jones Act issue. It isn’t. The carriage of any cargo to or from offshore installations in the GoM is a Jones Act trade and waivers are not being issued by the USCG to allow foreign vessels and manning there. The issue is service vessels which do not carry cargo such as IMR, seismic, well intervention, dive, etc… This is where there are already far too many foreign vessels in the US taking the work and retaining their foreign crews. There is no prohibition to these foreign vessels from contracting in the GoM although 33CFRpart141.5 states that these vessels are to have US mariner crews if they are under “effective control” of a US entity which they always are. If Olympic or Island Offshore have a vessel chartered to Oceaneering, that vessel is under the control of the latter and not the former when working. This is what the court fight would have to be over. A court needs to render a decision as to what “effective control” actually is and who has it since it is NOT defined in the CFRs. This is the huge loophole which is allowing all these vessels to come to the US and keep their crews.

This is all that needs to happen to see change occur and someone needs to file that suit.

AND IF THERE IS ONE NORWEGIAN HERE WHO CAN PROVE TO ME THAT NORWAY DOES NOT PROTECT ITS TURF IN THEIR OFFSHORE INDUSTRY FOR ITS CITIZENS THEN PLEASE DO SO OTHERWISE SUCK MY WANG!

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