Prospective Mariner Looking for Honest Advice

Professional Mariner Forum
1

I’d like to preface this by saying I’m fully aware of the pointy stick mob and have searched gCaptain’s forum for threads regarding this topic without much luck.

I’m strongly considering attending a maritime academy, but am little weary of the debt. As it stands, I’ll have to pay out-of-state tuition to attend an academy. That will place my student loan debt somewhere in the vicinity of $80,000-100,000 depending on which academy (hopefully) admits me. Great Lakes Maritime Academy states on their website a newly graduated 3/m can expect to earn $10,000 per month worked–i.e., $60,000-70,000 annually. That sort of wage wouldn’t leave me with much wiggle room after student loan payments and living expenses. A major factor is I’m already 30, and would be 35 by the time I graduate from an academy; that means less time to pay off debt, earn income, and save for retirement.

On top of that, from reading this forum I’ve gathered pensions in the maritime unions are quickly becoming a thing of the past, meaning I’ll need to plan/save for retirement on limited income. I’m aware it’s not all about the money, and I honestly wish that weren’t a factor in this decision. I just want to make sure I don’t get up to my nose in debt and end up retiring in a studio apartment eating plain oatmeal and ramen noodles I purchased with my SSI check. I guess I’m just trying to paint a realistic picture of what I’m potentially getting myself into.

So, is there anything I’m missing? Is $60,000-70,000 a realistic figure for a freshly graduated 3/m? Is there anyway to supplement that income, like working lots of OT or vacation pay?

Thanks for your help.

2

Not going to say a thing…but with your username you best be ready for all the Lincoln haters on here. There seems to be one behind every bush with a sniper rifle or a Derringer pistol ready to blast your brains all over the place

just sayin be ready for shots

3

[QUOTE=c.captain;157480]Not going to say a thing…but with your username you best be ready for all the Lincoln haters on here. There seems to be one behind every bush with a sniper rifle or a Derringer pistol ready to blast your brains all over the place

just sayin be ready for shots[/QUOTE]

Not sure why I chose that user name, honestly… it was the first thing that popped into my head. Anyways, I hate almost ALL politicians and am firmly independent of political affiliation.

4

Are you tied down to your current residence at all? A possibility you could look at is establishing residency somewhere that would give you in-state (or at least regional, if any of the academies offer that) tuition. Of course that may be easier said than done, but it could be a way to knock a dent in that student loan debt.

As to what a newly-minted third mate could make, the figures you were given are probably realistic. There are some jobs that do pay more, but you have to kind of be in the right place at the right time for those. Also keep in mind that you likely wouldn’t be making that forever–if you work hard and are reasonably ambitious, you can move up the ladder without too much trouble, and thus be making more.

Another angle you could take is to clear the decks, as it were–if you have a house, get rid of it. If you have expensive vehicles, get rid of them. If you’ve already got a family, then of course this is very difficult to do–but then going away to a maritime academy for four years would be very tough anyway. But the idea is, upon graduation, you might consider working for someone like MSC. You won’t get much vacation time, but if you put in, say, five years, and have very limited home expenses, you’d have a pretty good nut. And then you can move to another shipping sector that will allow for more vacation time.

Overall, if you do want to go to a maritime academy, I’d say go for it. It might require living very cheaply for a little while, but think of how many kids are coming out of college these days with 100 grand in debt and struggle to get anything other than a Starbucks job. At least coming out of a maritime academy you’ve got an excellent chance of finding work.

5

Get into the gym and workout.
Get yourself all buffed and then go to work in the Porno Industry…the work is sporadic, there are risks in the occupation, and the hours suck also. You won’t get rich there either.

But…

One day, far in your future you will be retired and sitting around the retirement facility, listening to the OTHER old geezers telling lies about their careers. Eventually they will ask what YOU did for a living, and you can say that you were paid to have sex with surgically enhanced women.

Then you can pop in your flash drive and hit “Play”.

A fellow should always keep an eye on the future.

6

[QUOTE=c.captain;157480]Not going to say a thing…but with your username you best be ready for all the Lincoln haters on here. There seems to be one behind every bush with a sniper rifle or a Derringer pistol ready to blast your brains all over the place

just sayin be ready for shots[/QUOTE]

how many hours a day do you spend on the gcaptain forum c.captain?

7

[QUOTE=follow40;157490]how many hours a day do you spend on the gcaptain forum c.captain?[/QUOTE]

who knows?..too many I would imagine

it’s very much like endlessly eating small between meal snacks…after awhile you still end up a very fat man

maybe I should divert all this energy into politics? anyone needing a new supersized governor these days?

8

First, I’d like to thank you for taking the time to compose a thoughtful response. I truly appreciate it.

[QUOTE=awulfclark;157483]Are you tied down to your current residence at all? A possibility you could look at is establishing residency somewhere that would give you in-state (or at least regional, if any of the academies offer that) tuition. Of course that may be easier said than done, but it could be a way to knock a dent in that student loan debt.[/QUOTE]

I live in the PNW. I’ve considered establishing residency. I’m not really sure it’s worth the opportunity cost, though.

[QUOTE=awulfclark;157483]As to what a newly-minted third mate could make, the figures you were given are probably realistic. There are some jobs that do pay more, but you have to kind of be in the right place at the right time for those. Also keep in mind that you likely wouldn’t be making that forever–if you work hard and are reasonably ambitious, you can move up the ladder without too much trouble, and thus be making more.

Another angle you could take is to clear the decks, as it were–if you have a house, get rid of it. If you have expensive vehicles, get rid of them. If you’ve already got a family, then of course this is very difficult to do–but then going away to a maritime academy for four years would be very tough anyway. But the idea is, upon graduation, you might consider working for someone like MSC. You won’t get much vacation time, but if you put in, say, five years, and have very limited home expenses, you’d have a pretty good nut. And then you can move to another shipping sector that will allow for more vacation time.[/QUOTE]

I’m single with no children, but do own an income property. However, I could (a) sell it, as the market conditions are favorable in my area or (b) use a property management company for a few years while I’m away (haven’t looked into the feasibility of this option). I imagine working for MSC would also expedite my license upgrades if I were sailing that much. That is an excellent option.

[QUOTE=awulfclark;157483]Overall, if you do want to go to a maritime academy, I’d say go for it. It might require living very cheaply for a little while, but think of how many kids are coming out of college these days with 100 grand in debt and struggle to get anything other than a Starbucks job. At least coming out of a maritime academy you’ve got an excellent chance of finding work.[/QUOTE]

This is true. In fact, that’s what I’m trying to avoid. There are tons of people living that scenario who never anticipated it; for instance, law grads forced to work for $15/hr as legal clerks due to the current glut of attorneys. I’ve done an excellent job avoiding excessive debt up to this point, which is why this decision is weighing so heavily on me.

Again, thank you for taking the time to reply and provide insight. I still have some thinking to do, but you’ve helped me down the path.

9

[QUOTE=c.captain;157496]who knows?..too many I would imagine

it’s very much like endlessly eating small between meal snacks…after awhile you still end up a very fat man

[B]maybe I should divert all this energy into politics[/B]? anyone needing a new supersized governor these days?[/QUOTE]

I thought you were already busy working on taking down the companies in the GOM hiring foreign sailors while the unemployed ( American…) masses starved?

10

ADD is a bitch…

11

Why do you need to go to an academy to get a 3rd Mates License? Just hawsepipe it and save your money.

12

[QUOTE=Rain Wizard;157522]ADD is a bitch…[/QUOTE]

man don’t I know it…

I don’t know which way I am going from one day to the next or how many irons are in fires growing red hot and waiting to be pounded on an anvil? How do these movers and shakers do it? Maybe I need to ask that kid who stays up to 4am every morning and lives on 3hrs of sleep?

I do need to get back onto the foreign mariner issue tho…thanks for the reminder

.

13

Big Chief Tablet and a Staedtler

14

[QUOTE=Honest_Abe;157478]I’d like to preface this by saying I’m fully aware of the pointy stick mob and have searched gCaptain’s forum for threads regarding this topic without much luck.

I’m strongly considering attending a maritime academy, but am little weary of the debt. As it stands, I’ll have to pay out-of-state tuition to attend an academy. That will place my student loan debt somewhere in the vicinity of $80,000-100,000 depending on which academy (hopefully) admits me. Great Lakes Maritime Academy states on their website a newly graduated 3/m can expect to earn $10,000 per month worked–i.e., $60,000-70,000 annually. That sort of wage wouldn’t leave me with much wiggle room after student loan payments and living expenses. A major factor is I’m already 30, and would be 35 by the time I graduate from an academy; that means less time to pay off debt, earn income, and save for retirement.

On top of that, from reading this forum I’ve gathered pensions in the maritime unions are quickly becoming a thing of the past, meaning I’ll need to plan/save for retirement on limited income. I’m aware it’s not all about the money, and I honestly wish that weren’t a factor in this decision. I just want to make sure I don’t get up to my nose in debt and end up retiring in a studio apartment eating plain oatmeal and ramen noodles I purchased with my SSI check. I guess I’m just trying to paint a realistic picture of what I’m potentially getting myself into.

So, is there anything I’m missing? Is $60,000-70,000 a realistic figure for a freshly graduated 3/m? Is there anyway to supplement that income, like working lots of OT or vacation pay?

Thanks for your help.[/QUOTE]

If I was you I would skip the academies altogether and do the hawsepipe thing. Basically get your OS and get on with MSC get your AB, do 5 years and then go sit for your license… That way you’d be making money instead of paying money and you’d have the same outcome. Granted if you hawsepipe then you won’t get a degree. Plus AB wages aren’t anything to scoff at either…

16

[QUOTE=Honest_Abe;157478]I’d like to preface this by saying I’m fully aware of the pointy stick mob and have searched gCaptain’s forum for threads regarding this topic without much luck.

I’m strongly considering attending a maritime academy, but am little weary of the debt. As it stands, I’ll have to pay out-of-state tuition to attend an academy. That will place my student loan debt somewhere in the vicinity of $80,000-100,000 depending on which academy (hopefully) admits me. Great Lakes Maritime Academy states on their website a newly graduated 3/m can expect to earn $10,000 per month worked–i.e., $60,000-70,000 annually. That sort of wage wouldn’t leave me with much wiggle room after student loan payments and living expenses. A major factor is I’m already 30, and would be 35 by the time I graduate from an academy; that means less time to pay off debt, earn income, and save for retirement.

On top of that, from reading this forum I’ve gathered pensions in the maritime unions are quickly becoming a thing of the past, meaning I’ll need to plan/save for retirement on limited income. I’m aware it’s not all about the money, and I honestly wish that weren’t a factor in this decision. I just want to make sure I don’t get up to my nose in debt and end up retiring in a studio apartment eating plain oatmeal and ramen noodles I purchased with my SSI check. I guess I’m just trying to paint a realistic picture of what I’m potentially getting myself into.

So, is there anything I’m missing? Is $60,000-70,000 a realistic figure for a freshly graduated 3/m? Is there anyway to supplement that income, like working lots of OT or vacation pay?

Thanks for your help.[/QUOTE]

There is a risk of a slowdown in hiring coinciding with the time you graduate.

The other thing, not a word about being a sea-going professional. I don’t like sailing with crew who’s goal is to squeeze every last nickel possible out of the operation. Who wants to sail with someone hoping the engine is going to swallow an exhaust valve because according to their excel spreadsheet that’s a gain of $800 OT? If the money grubbers are not on excel then they are on the cell phone juggling bills to stay solvent or in the captain’s office asking why the direct deposit hasn’t’ hit their account after 8 hours.

I’d rather have officers that can take the long view. Of course money is important but if the focus is on professional development and looking out for the ship the money will follow. If your only worry is your debt you can’t do that.

17

Is it just me or are we getting an unusually high amount of “Never been to see before but looking to try it” threads lately? Why is it that there seem to be more of them than usual just as HR departments in our industry are hitting a bit of a rough patch? For the first time in a few years we have more mariners looking for work than there are jobs to go around, and suddenly we seem to be getting a lot of people who have never done this before and want to make a go of it.

I’m not saying the newbies aren’t welcome, if we never got any new people in this industry then a dying shipbuilding industry and Washington politics would be the least of our problems! We’d be out of people to man the ships before the ships themselves died out or the creatures from the black lagoon in Washington got us! I’m just completely befuddled as to why they all want to join the party NOW as opposed to a year or two ago when things seemed to be going really well.

What gives!?

18

[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;15756]I’m just completely befuddled as to why they all want to join the party NOW as opposed to a year or two ago when things seemed to be going really well.

What gives!?[/QUOTE]

I think it is much like the Yukon Gold Rush…people started hearing about all the riches to be made panning for gold in Rabbit Creek a full year after the finds were made and all the valuable stakes were claimed by those already there yet even though there were no more good claims to be had and those claims that were great were already being rapidly depleted, the fools flooded north to find only hardship and tragedy awaiting them when they got off the boat at Dyea.

yup, read alot about the ole 98’ers

19

[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;157561]Is it just me or are we getting an unusually high amount of “Never been to see before but looking to try it” threads lately? Why is it that there seem to be more of them than usual just as HR departments in our industry are hitting a bit of a rough patch? For the first time in a few years we have more mariners looking for work than there are jobs to go around, and suddenly we seem to be getting a lot of people who have never done this before and want to make a go of it.

I’m not saying the newbies aren’t welcome, if we never got any new people in this industry then a dying shipbuilding industry and Washington politics would be the least of our problems! We’d be out of people to man the ships before the ships themselves died out or the creatures from the black lagoon in Washington got us! I’m just completely befuddled as to why they all want to join the party NOW as opposed to a year or two ago when things seemed to be going really well.

What gives!?[/QUOTE]

I don’t think there is much chance of having a shortage of new thirds the way the academies pump them out. When I went on a job search with a fresh thirds license I lost count of how many people told me thirds were “a dime a dozen.”

As to the new found interest…not sure of it’s true but the merchant marine has had a higher profile recently. Atlantic Monthly article by James Fallows about Maine Maritime, $100,000 straight out of school plus the Tom Hanks movie.

20

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;157556]There is a risk of a slowdown in hiring coinciding with the time you graduate.

The other thing, not a word about being a sea-going professional. I don’t like sailing with crew who’s goal is to squeeze every last nickel possible out of the operation.[/QUOTE]

I assumed the context of this forum would make it apparent I desire to be a sea-going professional.

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;157556]Who wants to sail with someone hoping the engine is going to swallow an exhaust valve because according to their excel spreadsheet that’s a gain of $800 OT? If the money grubbers are not on excel then they are on the cell phone juggling bills to stay solvent or in the captain’s office asking why the direct deposit hasn’t’ hit their account after 8 hours.[/QUOTE]

That’s fraud, plain and simple.

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;157556]I’d rather have officers that can take the long view. Of course money is important but if the focus is on professional development and looking out for the ship the money will follow. If your only worry is your debt you can’t do that.[/QUOTE]

That’s the thing, I [I]am [/I]taking the long view. Let me pose a question: Is it easier for someone to function to their full professional capacity [I]with [/I]or [I]without[/I] the burden of crushing debt? I’m not out to get rich… I ditched that dream years ago. I’m just trying to avoid becoming the old, lonely blue-hair, dependent on SSI and the generosity of the local church because my body gave out before I could earn enough for retirement. If taking an active role in my financial position/future is a character flaw, then so be it.

21

Since you’re already in the PNW, have you considered PMI’s Workboat Academy? Two years, a lot cheaper than a traditional academy, and if you don’t have other expenses you can almost pay for it through your sea segments (or so I’ve been told). Google a blog “Back to sea with me” by a guy who has just finished the program – an older (than you) guy who made a dramatic career change a couple of years ago.

Also, once you take the 1600 Mate exam, you’re good all the way to 2nd AGT – it’s just sea service on the appropriately sized vessels and routes, which shouldn’t be a problem.