Possible career change... industry insights wanted

Professional Mariner Forum
21

OK, here’s my take on it. Although, admittedly I am not in the ‘oil patch’.

You bring up several falacies. The first is that, ‘cause you know someone’ you are all set. The second is that you will go to work as an ‘engineer trainee’ at engineers pay. No where is that done. You will be at deckhands, entry level pay. You “May” get your foot in the door, Depending on ‘relative ability’, but keeping your foot in there will depend solely on you.

You assume that you will just sail through the exams. Not true. You have not even set foot on a boat yet. Living with 5, 9 or 12 other guys for hitch after hitch is not always as easy as it is joked, jabbed and jawed about. I would suggest trying it out for a while, before you commit cash and years into it.

To get an upper level license you would have to work for two or three years, not 8 months. Although some would argue, a QMED is NOT an upper level license. To be honest, I don’t know of ANY shoreside port engineer who would promote a new entry guy after only 8 months on a vessel. Maybe in the Oil Patch it is different, but if you are getting hired on the new builds, with bigger licenses, I sincerely doubt it. You may get on at some ‘less than reputable’ place, but, that in itself would hinder your career. (Then again, if you have nothing to loose…) As mentioned the daily rate is around 200 a day. So for a even time schedule, that comes out to 36,000 year. You mention being aboard for 8 months. That is only 4 months seatime. That isn’t even enough time to apply for anything. Your seatime is basically half a year. To get a QMED takes 6 months of seatime. So that is one year of actual seatime. (you’re home half the time) Take a look at thisschedule. It takes more than a little bit. And, As I said before… The assumption that you will breeze through the exams is not to be taken lightly. If ‘everyone’ could do it, there would be a waiting line at the door of every office.

Regarding the future, If we were that omnipotent we would all be OFF GCaptain, and on our private islands in the Caribbean! The Oil Patch is cyclical. It goes up, and comes down. I have purposefully stayed OUT of the oil patch because of the cycle crashes. It goes EXTREMELY well for a while, then BOOM. Layoffs, and tieups. Nasty part of the business. The current boom seems (to me at least) one of the longest and strongest I can recall. (I have been in the Coastwise Towing industry since 1980) But, During this time I have seen three distinct boom and bust cycles. Where we are in the cycle is up for speculation. We NEED oil. The major companies are spending HUGE in new technology to develop and get it. And the support field needs to keep expanding to meet the exploration and development.

22

We get day and half time on most boats in the oil patch. So if you work 9 months out of the year you get a full year of seatime. Work even time and you get about 9 months of seatime.

So yes a person is able to get more then 365 days of seatime a year if a person works more then 9 months a year.

23

It sounded to me like this was on a large OSV. Correct me if I am wrong, but with a manning document, and a 4 an 8 watch it would be pretty difficult to get 12 hours a day legally. Not saying it isn’t fluffed through the letter writing mill… But on a boat that HAS to stand 4 and 8 it is not supposed to be allowed.

24

Sounds to me like he’s trying to get into the HOS ATP program.

But since it’s a big secret, do you know how much sea time you need and how much these classes cost that you have to take in order to upgrade? Assuming this isn’t the ATP program.

25

[QUOTE=ryanwood86;111846]
But since it’s a big secret, .[/QUOTE]
That’s one of the best things about this industry. With a little intuition and some conversation is all comes out in the wash… Secrets, schmmecrets.

Psst. Don’t tell anyone else. No one else knows… Meanwhile down at the scuttlebutt.

26

[QUOTE=“cappy208;111844”]It sounded to me like this was on a large OSV. Correct me if I am wrong, but with a manning document, and a 4 an 8 watch it would be pretty difficult to get 12 hours a day legally. Not saying it isn’t fluffed through the letter writing mill… But on a boat that HAS to stand 4 and 8 it is not supposed to be allowed.[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure what you’re saying, but the large OSVs still stand 12 hour watches. The manning requirements allow this as long as you stay with the subchapter L requirements

27

[QUOTE=cappy208;111819]OK, here’s my take on it. Although, admittedly I am not in the ‘oil patch’.

You bring up several falacies. The first is that, ‘cause you know someone’ you are all set. The second is that you will go to work as an ‘engineer trainee’ at engineers pay. No where is that done. You will be at deckhands, entry level pay. You “May” get your foot in the door, Depending on ‘relative ability’, but keeping your foot in there will depend solely on you.

You assume that you will just sail through the exams. Not true. You have not even set foot on a boat yet. Living with 5, 9 or 12 other guys for hitch after hitch is not always as easy as it is joked, jabbed and jawed about. I would suggest trying it out for a while, before you commit cash and years into it.

To get an upper level license you would have to work for two or three years, not 8 months. Although some would argue, a QMED is NOT an upper level license. To be honest, I don’t know of ANY shoreside port engineer who would promote a new entry guy after only 8 months on a vessel. Maybe in the Oil Patch it is different, but if you are getting hired on the new builds, with bigger licenses, I sincerely doubt it. You may get on at some ‘less than reputable’ place, but, that in itself would hinder your career. (Then again, if you have nothing to loose…) As mentioned the daily rate is around 200 a day. So for a even time schedule, that comes out to 36,000 year. You mention being aboard for 8 months. That is only 4 months seatime. That isn’t even enough time to apply for anything. Your seatime is basically half a year. To get a QMED takes 6 months of seatime. So that is one year of actual seatime. (you’re home half the time) Take a look at thisschedule. It takes more than a little bit. And, As I said before… The assumption that you will breeze through the exams is not to be taken lightly. If ‘everyone’ could do it, there would be a waiting line at the door of every office.[/quote]

Well, I never once claimed that I would be walking in to an engineers job. I simply stated that the offer I was given. Nothing more. I never claimed that I would have an engineers license in 8 months, nor did I claim that a QMED was an upper level certificate. I KNOW that sea time is required, and all of that has been explained to me. I KNOW that I cannot test for certain licenses until XXX days at a lower rating. I never ONCE claimed that I would be shortcutting the system. All I said is that I have a friend who has been begging me to come out for five years, and he is willing to help me and tutor me on everything I need to know, and that because of this, I already have a “foot in the door”. Please don’t turn my posts into something they are not.

Regarding the future, If we were that omnipotent we would all be OFF GCaptain, and on our private islands in the Caribbean! The Oil Patch is cyclical. It goes up, and comes down. I have purposefully stayed OUT of the oil patch because of the cycle crashes. It goes EXTREMELY well for a while, then BOOM. Layoffs, and tieups. Nasty part of the business. The current boom seems (to me at least) one of the longest and strongest I can recall. (I have been in the Coastwise Towing industry since 1980) But, During this time I have seen three distinct boom and bust cycles. Where we are in the cycle is up for speculation. We NEED oil. The major companies are spending HUGE in new technology to develop and get it. And the support field needs to keep expanding to meet the exploration and development.

This is why I was asking for SPECULATION, and HISTORY… Not a fortune teller.

I specifically asked if it was historically cyclical work in my original post, and I asked for SPECULATION.

I may be an arrogant ass, but I can plainly see that I did not say any of those things you’re accusing me of.

28

NM: No, you never claimed any of those things. You did say you wanted to be on deck for a grand total of 8 months. So the destination is???

You mention 8 months, the ONLY license you could conceivably get in 8 months is either an A.B. or a QMED. I was just letting you know that a QMED is NOT an upper level license.

The fortune teller part is EXACTLY what you were asking for. But, there is NO guarantee of what will happen. No one can tell you these things. It’s like going to the financial guys. They ALWAYS say: Earnings cannot be predicted in the future. Same here for the ‘patch’.

I was trying to give you the ‘unvarnished truth’ of what you are asking for. With NO embellishment and no BS. Sorry if you don’t receive the info well. I tried.

29

[QUOTE=ryanwood86;111846]Sounds to me like he’s trying to get into the HOS ATP program.

But since it’s a big secret, do you know how much sea time you need and how much these classes cost that you have to take in order to upgrade? Assuming this isn’t the ATP program.[/QUOTE]

I am fully aware of all requirements found on the checklists from the NMC website.

I never claimed 8 months to be an engineer… But 8 months to get in to the engine dept and start learning and start my sea time in the engine room. The cost of the classes is something else that I have discussed.

30

[QUOTE=cappy208;111852]NM: No, you never claimed any of those things. You did say you wanted to be on deck for a grand total of 8 months. So the destination is???

You mention 8 months, the ONLY license you could conceivably get in 8 months is either an A.B. or a QMED. I was just letting you know that a QMED is NOT an upper level license.

The fortune teller part is EXACTLY what you were asking for. But, there is NO guarantee of what will happen. No one can tell you these things. It’s like going to the financial guys. They ALWAYS say: Earnings cannot be predicted in the future. Same here for the ‘patch’.

I was trying to give you the ‘unvarnished truth’ of what you are asking for. With NO embellishment and no BS. Sorry if you don’t receive the info well. I tried.[/QUOTE]

Thank You.

I was asking for speculation, knowing full well what that word means. For instance, In my current occupation, I can speculate that my job will be abolished and performed by a contractor making half of what my colleagues make, and my other function replaced by computer automation. Now, I have no basis for that claim other than experience and the knowledge of what has happened in other departments…

I understand how sea time is counted. A day is 8 hours of work, and time not working isn’t counted. It is something hat has already been discussed sufficiently for me.

I have no illusions that I won’t be starting from the bottom (but it will suck having an electrical engineering degree and scrubbing toilets for a period), but you might say that I am being looked at due to my current experience with large Diesel-Electric propulsion systems both DC and A/C.

Please excuse my anonymity, but I know nothing on the internet is truly deleted, and I wish to remain anonymous.

As far as working conditions, My current schedule is on call 24x7 with no real schedule, but due to capital upgrades, our work will diminish pretty quickly here and my company is already talking about temporary layoffs… So it is rather convenient that this opportunity should coincide with a period where I would have no problem getting a leave of absence… You know… Just in case.

As I alluded to in a previous post, I have weeks, maybe months before I have to make a decision, and I am gathering information. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think maybe some of the confusion comes from the terminology here… I never once considered a QMED an upper level license, just the next step after 6-8 months of sea time. I never claimed that I wouldn’t be starting at the bottom, but I did say that I was told that I would be “fast tracked” into the engineering DEPARTMENT. I am fully aware of the sea time requirements and the classwork. My offer was to test and move up as soon as I am qualified to do so.

31

Ok I’ll solve all this:

OP, Yes it is all highly cyclical work. Especially in the Gulf. If you’d be taking a pay-cut, just stay in your own job and advance there.

32

In my Career there were many times that I had offers to move from one part of the Industry to another that is Booming at the time. My choice was always to stay where I was as it was at least a little stable, or as stable as anything can be in the Marine Industry.

Making a major change in Careers is and should be a scary thing. I have had to step back and start over several times in my 27 years of going to sea.

New Mariner, you made a statement that you hated the idea of having to “Scrub Toilets” because you have a Degree. I have worked with men that were Owners of their own companies, Upper Level Officers in the Military and many other Men that previously held high ranking positions before deciding to go to sea. For the most part them men did everything that was asked of them and did not bitch about having to “clean the Heads”. The Men and Women that bitched the most were those that held Degrees and thought they were above doing manual labor.

NewMariner, Most of us here have been working in the Industry for a long time and have seen so many people come and go because they did not move up the ladder as fast as they thought they should. My suggestion to you is get your foot in the door and do what your are told to do, and take the necessary time to learn what is needed to make you a good shipmate. You mentioned that you have a connection that will help you get into the Engine Department. While this sounds great, you really need to do you time in whatever position you get hired for, learn and understand that even though you have a degree that “Might” help you advance nothing is a sure thing. If you walk on a Vessel as lets just as as a OS and start spending a lot of time in the ER with your Mentor, the rest of the crew may not be happy if they think you are going to “Jump” over others that want to move up and have put their time in and are qualified.

So, if you decide to make this move you need to understand that you might be scrubbing the heads for a couple of years before being able to even think about moving up. You will also need to accept the fact that you will be taking a large pay cut for a couple (or More) years. While you may hold a Degree in Electrical Engineering, you have never worked and lived on a vessel and there will be a large learning curve. If you can get your mind wrapped around all of this I wish you well and hope that you can work your way into the ER. Now, if you start out thinking that you are above doing “Crap” work and think you will be fast tracked you are setting your self up for disappointment and will not be happy.

33

[QUOTE=NewMariner;111861]Thank You.I have no illusions that I won’t be starting from the bottom (but it will suck having an electrical engineering degree and scrubbing toilets for a period), but you might say that I am being looked at due to my current experience with large Diesel-Electric propulsion systems both DC and A/C.QUOTE]
If your degree is accepted by the CG, you can sit for a 3rd asst license with 6 months seatime. Test and upgrade as soon as you accumulate the seatime. Jobwize? Just don’t bite off more than you can chew as you advance.

34

Well said, Tugs

I am degreed and was a Port Engineer just a few years ago, now I’m a QMED junior eng, and fixed a toilet just the other day. Spent a 12 hour shift cleaning day before last. Nobody’s too good. If anyone is starting over they should expect to work from the ground up. It’s actually a relief to not have to deal with paperwork and monotony behind a computer!

We’re in Canaveral today, just picked up the rental car and life is good! Now if I can just get pics to load with the iPhone app…

35

with an EE degree you should probably be looking for ETO positions, or maybe something in subsea, or ROV ET, sounds like better fit for your background