I understand that there’s studying involved and have no issue with that. I’m just saying that I don’t want to spend years at an academy. I understand that hawsepiping requires study and I’m fine with that. I’m fine with short courses like tug suggested, but I don’t want to spend years at an academy. I’m fine with going to sea as a Wiper, I don’t plan on getting married young and the Wiper salary is more than enough to support a single dude without a lot of expensive habits. I’ll take courses, I just don’t want to be stuck in school for a few extra years, I’m graduating High School early for a reason. And tug, I hear what you’re saying about starting with a small company, but if I’m just trying to get sea hours, I’d rather get on with Military Sealift Command and get my sea hours there. Thanks for the advice on what to get first though. I’ll look into the QMED courses, those don’t sound too bad, but like I said, I don’t want to do some multi-year course without knowing for sure that I like the job. Once I’m in and know I like the work, THEN I might think about a multi-year academy deal to help with advancement. Make sense?
Here’s what I’m finding on the entry level positions on sealiftcommand.com
Applicants to the Any Entry Level position will be assigned to one of three positions - SU, OS (OSAP) or Wiper (WAP). Participants in the OSAP or WAP programs will receive on-the-job training and work experience and become eligible for higher level certifications. Upon completion of OSAP or WAP program requirements, participants will become eligible for consideration for permanent promotion from Wiper to Engine Utilityman (EU) or Ordinary Seaman to Able Seaman (AB). Selection will be contingent on the successful completion of an administrative review (medical, security, discipline, etc.), and a review of supervisory evaluations and input regarding performance and readiness for permanent promotion. An authorized position must be available in order for the promotion to be affected. Individuals who fail to complete the requirements of this program within their not-to-exceed date may be terminated from MSC employment or be reassigned to the position of Supply Utilityman based on the needs of the Command.
SO to get the better chance of getting into the engine dept, Oiler is the cert I want?
IF you get a job as a wiper you’ll most likely be doing mopping, emptying rag bins, and cleaning of the engine room. If you’re lucky you’ll get to help with some bigger jobs. but, I mean help as in hold tools, clean parts, and go get rags and stuff. You won’t be learning the intricacies of diesel engines, electrical systems, and other stuff.
I hear you, but did you not see what I said earlier? I’m a Texan from a blue-collar family. I’m fine with doing menial labor for a long-ass time to work myself up. I’m thinking I’ll get the QMED oiler cert, get on entry level, and just work from there. Like I said, a Wiper position will allow me to travel like I want to and pay me plenty to support myself. I’ll look at the courses, but I am telling you, I have no issue with hawsepiping. I don’t care that it’s hard, the way I see it, doing the hard stuff will make me a better candidate for promotion than just going to an academy and walking out with a cert. What you said about your experience building stuff? I do bike repairs on my bike. I want to learn small engine repair and will be learning small engine repair as soon as I have a job and a car so that I can get myself where I need to go. I know a good bit of theory of engine repair, I just have no actual practice doing it. I’m telling you, I understand what you’re saying about the academy, but I’m fine with doing the hard work. I don’t want to spend 4 years of my life at an academy when I could be actually out in the world getting life and work experience. I understand that for fast advancement, the academy is the way to go, but I also know that the guy who comes in with a degree and takes the job that the hard worker could do and deserves is often considered an asshole. I don’t want to be the asshole. Look, I hear what you’re saying about the academy, but does that cert prove anything about whether I can do the job? No, it proves that someone has said I can do the job. I understand that it’s harder and that’s part of why I want to go the hawsepiper route. I don’t want to just be that kid who came in with the degree and got the slot, I want to prove that I deserve the slot before I ever get it. I’m going to be graduating a year earlier than most people (a couple months after I turn 17) with no big plans for the rest of my life. I’ll have time to study and will be used to putting in extra study hours. I can study the hell out of the material and ace the test, or I can study enough to scrape by, but I can handle getting the job through hawsepiping. I hear what you’re saying, but I’ve already decided what way I’m going and I’m looking for advice on how best to go about traveling that path. I’m not looking for advice on what other path I should take.
What the hell are you talking about? “Takes the job”??? “Deserves”??? Nobody deserves shit.
Maritime academy people worked very hard to graduate. They have to take the same exams as a hawsepiper and the failure rates are increasing because the new question banks & illustrations are harder and aren’t available on the internet for people to just memorize like the old days. You don’t know what the hell you are talking about. Jesus.
Companies hire the guy that has the certs & qualifications for the job and fills the manning requirements. People can get a leg up from a recruiter seeing they went to an academy, but that in no way means they are looked at as an asshole by other crew. That’s on personality and work ethic. Many academy guys come in with a great work ethic and humble. More often than not I’ve experienced a company wanting to promote a person internally that has upgraded then go outside the company.
Hi Mesquite, I have been following this conversation with an open mind. From my perspective, as someone who has been on the deckplates for over 50 years and still sailing, you come across as really hard headed, which is not a good trait for someone who is looking to move up the career ladder learning from others on the job. A little humility goes a long way on the boat or in any career path. Just so you are clear about the industry - a hawsepiper is required to take multiple courses to advance their rating, license, and career. There is no avoiding that fact. Also, someone is considered an asshole for their behavior on the job, not from what school or academy they attended. Open your ears and listen to the other posters. Listen to understand, not to debate. They are offering their advice with good will towards you based on their experience and knowledge gleaned from years on the job at sea.
Since no one else has said it yet, MSC really sucks for a lot of different reasons.
It’s hard to get hired. There is a ridiculous amount of hurry up and wait. It’s hard to actually get sent to a ship. It’s even harder to get a relief and be able to go home.
You may be shot at in a war zone
You’ll be living and working with a lot of lazy lowlife’s on the ship.
If you were home schooled for religious reasons, you will be shocked and disgusted by the things that you’ll probably see on most MSC ships.
If one is home schooled for any reason one is ill prepared for life aboard a ship with so people of many different backgrounds as well as social and moral codes. Go volunteer at your local minimum security prison for a glimpse of your future. 
What you seem to be is very anxious to get away from home. Maybe join the Navy?
- not trying to take the piss, I am serious. You will come out with knowledge, experience, benefits, and a big jump up the ladder for your next job. I have two “mustangs” in my family that came up the hawsepipe to officer status and then good careers on retirement that did not cost them a dime for their schooling. It will for sure get you out of the house!
I understand, but I have no goal in this job except to make money and enjoy the work, so the academy is near worthless to me. I am willing to study, but I just want to make some money and enjoy some freedom, so I don’t want to go to the academy. Yes, I’m hard-headed. But right now, I’m being hard-headed because I have decided what works for me and I don’t want to hear about other paths. I looked into other paths and decided what I want to do. THE END.
I understand what you are saying. I can work with lazy lowlifes (I deal with peopl all the time who definitely classify as lazy). I can take pressure. I understand that some weird crap happens onboard ships, but I’m homeschooled primarily because the quality of education in public schools suck, not religious reasons.
I’m actually pretty well-prepared for shipboard life. I’m a middle child, I know how to get attention when needed and avoid attention otherwise. I think I could do pretty good.
I hear what you’re saying and if MSC doesn’t work out, I’ll look at the navy. But my dad is ex-navy and I’ve weighed the pros and cons of each and settled on MSC. Thanks for the actual advice instead of trying to make me go to the academy like @Kingrobby is doing. And @Kingrobby , I know that academy people work hard to graduate, but honestly, I just don’t want or need to go the academy route. And what you said about companies wanting to promote a person internally? That’s part of why I want to hawsepipe my way up. What I’m saying is this. I don’t want to go to the academy and I have no need to go to the academy. So, I’m going to hawsepipe my way up instead of going to the academy. I know I seem hardheaded, but I’ve decided what I want to do and I don’t want advice on how I should change my plans. @yacht_sailor is suggesting that I look into a different branch, but he sees that I’ve decided what I want to do and isn’t trying to discourage me from hawsepiping, in fact, he’s somewhat encouraging it. I don’t want to hear about how I shouldn’t hawsepipe my way up, I want to know how best to hawsepipe my way up. If you’re just going to be telling me that my plan is stupid even though it’ll keep me happy and fed, I don’t want to hear it, please keep your opinions to yourself. If you’re going to give actual constructive advice on how I can carry out my plan, thank you.
Ok snowflake. You don’t even understand what he meant by it yet you took offense. FFS
Then why are you asking for advice if you already know all everything and you’re just going to ignore all the advice?
Then maybe it’s time to close the thread. @Kennebec_Captain
That last line seems to be implying I’ll go to prison and that it’s in some way related to me being homeschooled. That’s why I took offense. If that’s not it, please explain. I’m asking for advice on how to travel the path I’ve picked, not trying to get advice on what other path I could take. I’m listening to @tugsailor and @yacht_sailor when they give me tips on how to follow the path I want to, or in @yacht_sailor ‘s case, suggesting a slight pivot without saying that I’m an idiot for not spending years at an academy that I don’t need or want to go to. I’m not closing the thread because I’m still looking for advice. You notice I’m getting snappy with @Kingrobby and the others who are insisting that I have to go to the academy, but that I’m cool with @tugsailor and @yacht_sailor , who are actually giving me advice on how I should/could pivot a little without telling me that my entire plan is garbage and that I should turn around and follow a completely different path.
No it’s saying that your life on an MSC ship will be equivalent to prison both due to being stuck and the level of people that MSC hires.
OK. @tengineer1 , sorry for saying FU. Will remove that from my post. Now that I understand what you mean, that’s actually pretty damn funny. But I’ve caught a lot of flak online about being homeschooled with people saying I’m stupid, unsocialized or just plain calling me a baby-back-bitch, so I misunderstood your meaning. We cool?
Also, two things:
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the hiring process at MSC takes a really, really long time. That’s why it’s generally preferable to go get a job on tugs or apply boats. Even if you want to work for MSC eventually at last then you’re working and getting paid whole you wait.
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MSC is infamous for hiring academy grads and refusing to promote ABs and QMEDs that have their licenses. They take a really hard time finding enough ABs and QMEDs so that’s rather have you stuck there forever and hire academy grads to fill officer openings. Even when they let you temporarily fill in as an officer they’ll demote you back as soon as they can hire someone to fill that spot.
I’m homeschooled, so can apply long before I can actually work. How long is there typically between application and acceptance. If I really need the promotion, I can get the academy degree, even if I don’t want to, but I view that as something that’s not worth spending four years on a degree for, since who knows, I might actually get a permanent promotion.
Very very long. On some of the reddit threads (which you could have found with a google search) new guys have been waiting 12-18months. 4-6months for paperwork, another 6 maybe to get a NEO date, and sitting in the pool for another 4-6. It’s vastly quicker if you’re licensed. There’s actually a forum that deals exclusively with people that are trying to get into MSC with tons of great advice. You’re smart you should find it easily. If you put you’re a Texan on your resume I’m sure you’ll be fast tracked. hahahaha
“I’m actually pretty well-prepared for shipboard life. I’m a middle child.” Oh sweet summer child you have ZERO idea about shipboard life in the merchant marine.
I never insisted you had to go to an Academy. From someone that’s hawsepiped, has experience, and seen how the industry has changed since i did it, an academy is just a vastly better way to go, especially when you take your young age into account. The advice would be different if you’re in your 30’s. The days of being able to hawsepipe are numbered. There is a saying that you don’t know what you don’t know. Some people are humble enough to admit it. You seem to think you know, even though you have less than zero experience. That’s worse.
Here is a list of USCG approved schools. Maybe you’‘ll find a QMED school on it, but you probably already know.
https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/NMC/pdfs/courses/courses.pdf