But they also graduate you as an OS not an AB so they aren’t a school getting you any ratings. They just seen to be trying to screw you into having to work your way up.
Your sea time ALWAYS counts. Even from an academy. If you don’t graduate you can still use your sea time from the academy, but only the actual time spent on vessels.
[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;61274]But they also graduate you as an OS not an AB so they aren’t a school getting you any ratings. They just seen to be trying to screw you into having to work your way up.
Your sea time ALWAYS counts. Even from an academy. If you don’t graduate you can still use your sea time from the academy, but only the actual time spent on vessels.[/QUOTE]
You get an AB if you finish your 4 months job on a vessel. You work as an OS on the vessel, but after that, you can go back to Piney Point for session V and that apparently you get enough total sea service credit that you can get an AB special. I think the admissions person told me that you get sea service credit for 240 days for the classroom/training portions of the program, then you add the 120 days you spend working on the vessel as an OS for your AB Special. They were pretty adamant about your sea service not counting unless you finish because it’s by special arrangement with the Coast Guard. I think they mean the 90 day stint at sea in session II where you rotate through the three different departments to learn something about each and figure out what department you’ll specialize in during session 3. It makes sense that that doesn’t count because it’s still part of your classroom time. Academies probably have different rules.
You also get your STCW training there, etc. All in all, it seems like you learn more if you attend this program than if you spent the time working as an OS on a ship.
from: http://www.seafarers.org/jobs/ua.html
[B]Phase II[/B][LEFT] – ninety (90) days or more shipboard training as a non-crew member unlicensed apprentice. This includes thirty (30) days in each department with required completion of a designated sea project. Apprentices receive a stipend while they are training on board the vessel during Phase II.
They specifically say you’re a “non-crew member”. To me that means no sea time. An apprentice is like a passenger.
[/LEFT]
An apprentice is like a cadet and cadet time counts just like deckhand time towards a deck license. Maybe the time doesn’t count, or maybe they just don’t give you your sea time letters for it. Someone at the NMC who actually knows something would need to field that. I would be surprised if it didn’t count, though.
Cadets in training status aboard commercial vessels shall sign on board as cadets and shall pursue their training within the framework of formal sea projects prepared and monitored by their respective Schools.
46 cfr sub chapter h 310.3 © curriculum
I think that was the reason cadet sea time won’t get you time towards AB or QMED if you drop the program.
I believe it does count. The problem for people who drop the program is that their actual sea time is maybe 100 days, far short of the required amount for a rating.
[QUOTE=mb05j;61250]The union hall people said I should go to the school despite already having an AB, so that I get the b card and a gauranteed 4 month contract…[/QUOTE]
The advice to get your AB-Unlimited may be sound, it will improve your job placement chances. By law, on some vessels at least 75% of the ABs must hold AB-Unlimited. It may be a good idea to consider whether the program will get you to AB-Unlimited faster when you make your decision.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;61286]The advice to get your AB-Unlimited may be sound, it will improve your job placement chances. By law, on some vessels at least 75% of the ABs must hold AB-Unlimited. It may be a good idea to consider whether the program will get you to AB-Unlimited faster when you make your decision.[/QUOTE]
That’s a good point. If he hates the school, then he’s wasting his time if he drops out before the job phase, because none of it will count for sea service, he could have been advancing his time on a ship instead.
mb05j, did you actually call the school admissions office? I did. They were more informed than the guy at the Union Hall and will be able to give you better advice.
No I didn’t talk to the admissions office, but there were a number of people in the union hall saying I should go to the school for the b card and the first gauranteed contract, instead of sitting in the union hall for 6 months to a year or more as a c card. I never gave waiting in the union hall praying for a job a thought, that’s not my style.
I do sort of have another gig lined up, hence my other thread about cmar, but that’s just a few days; but if I felt like I could get consistent work on private ships, I may consider doing that instead of the union. Following that line of thought, do people on this forum that are not in unions find it difficult to get consistent work as an AB on unlimited vessels?
If it’s “people” who were sitting in the Union Hall telling you this, they might be misinformed. I’d definitely call the admissions office on Monday. They won’t bite, and you won’t be speculating. Who knows, the whole thing might be a moot point after all for you. Post back what you find out, please?
Maria, the people in the union hall were telling him to go get his B book instead of just having a C book. In that topic, actual seafarers opinions matter more than the people at the school, who will hype up the benefit of their school to try to sell you.
Non union people don’t normally ship on contracts like in a union. You get hired on by a company and work a steady rotation. I believe canoco phillips is hiring ABs right now, by the way.
[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;61319]Maria, the people in the union hall were telling him to go get his B book instead of just having a C book. In that topic, actual seafarers opinions matter more than the people at the school, who will hype up the benefit of their school to try to sell you.[/QUOTE]
You’re missing my point! The Hall guys are telling him Piney Point is the route to go for the purpose of getting his B book, (it’s a “tactic” for getting a job) and I’m saying that Piney Point isn’t necessarily going to agree that that’s the mission of their program for someone who already has an AB Limited credential and training. The Union guys sitting in the hall don’t make that decision, the admissions office does. You have to write an essay question on their application. The question you have to answer is: “Why do you want to a mariner?” Well he is a mariner already and may not be admitted for that reason. They might tell him about the other training that’s available instead. The only way to know for sure is to call them. They might view it as a waste of resources to train someone in the same thing twice. I’m just sayin’.
Maybe, but the advice he got is from the best source for it. The working mariners say that a B book is very helpful. They didn’t day the school would admit him, just that he wants the B book. I would not trust the admissions people if they told me that.
Of course the B book is helpful. I never denied that. I got the impression the Union people told mpj05 that he should do the program. When I called the Union Hall, my impression from the man who answered the phone and recommended Piney Point, was that you can’t have been a mariner or in the Union before going into the apprenticeship program.
I never said you denied it, just that that was what they told him. They said he should go to school and get his B book, not that he would be accepted.
That does answer his question about how beneficial a B book is though…
Thanks for the Canoco tip, I just applied.
Well why dont you try offshore job? Entry level like OS and wiper making 200$ to 230$ a day… So, thats 5600$ to 6440$
For 28/14 rotation. Some good companies in LA. Will pay for your travel and trainings…That is a guaranteed job not the one
That needs to standby in halls to get another contract when 4 months is done…Then when you got your seatime like for OS
Needs 180 days (12 hrs watch) to upgrade for AB OSV , you can get it in 9 months w/ 28/14 rotation…then you will be paid
280$ to 300$ a day… Then from here get your seatime to upgrade to mate… I think thats better than going to Piney Point w/o
A guaranteed job/income…
Also apply to all the OSV companies in the gulf as an AB.
[QUOTE=miami;61355]Well why dont you try offshore job? Entry level like OS and wiper making 200$ to 230$ a day… So, thats 5600$ to 6440$
For 28/14 rotation. Some good companies in LA. Will pay for your travel and trainings…That is a guaranteed job not the one
That needs to standby in halls to get another contract when 4 months is done…Then when you got your seatime like for OS
Needs 180 days (12 hrs watch) to upgrade for AB OSV , you can get it in 9 months w/ 28/14 rotation…then you will be paid
280$ to 300$ a day… Then from here get your seatime to upgrade to mate… I think thats better than going to Piney Point w/o
A guaranteed job/income…[/QUOTE]
What OSV companys pay that for entry level jobs ?
[QUOTE=Mike23;61359]What OSV companys pay that for entry level jobs ?[/QUOTE]
HOS,Harvey Gulf,Seacor…etc…Check out ECO also, you can see the day rate in careers…