This is great ! Keep em coming !
Iām still working in the GOM.
youāre an idiot. How the fuck does someone laid off (working in another industry doesnāt count) make double over 2,4,10 years if they make 0 for a part of that time and then only make the same if not %10-25 more? Youād have to make 2.5-3 times that over the whole time period to end up āmaking double.ā When the GOM comes back Joe boss will only pay the minimum needed to crew the boats. How many abās are (or were) making $600+ a day anyways??
[QUOTE=josh.reid24;173742] And people wonder why we, the oil patch, hate fucking river ratsā¦ Bunch of no good, worthless bunch of people that couldnāt captain their way out of a wet paper bag if you flooded it and opened up both endsā¦ [/QUOTE]
Not sure whom this statement is directed at, or what its based onā¦but Iāve seen it from both ends and all capacities. The skill set of someone moving barges around (notice how I am pointing attention to barge handling, including any waterway) is a bit above that of an OSV capt. Anyway you slice it, moving around an inanimate object that can be sometimes the size of a ship safely in varying sea conditions takes more skill than runnin light boat. Just my opinion.
Jeaux Boss must be a second cousin to Bernie Sanders. That crazy Jeaux Boss was paying his Skoal-stained ABs over $400 a day and some of his captainās over $1,000. Some of those guys not only thought they were worth it, but they thought they deserved even more. Overpaying that kind of money, Jeaux Boss must be a socialist.
The oil companies are now learning about the importance of cost containment and cost efficiency. Next time the oil patch picks up there will not be so much reckless overspending. The boats will not have twice as much crew as the Certificate of inspection requires, and Jeaux Boss will not be overpaying his crews twice what they are worth either.
[QUOTE=Ctony;173757]Not sure whom this statement is directed at, or what its based onā¦but Iāve seen it from both ends and all capacities. The skill set of someone moving barges around (notice how I am pointing attention to barge handling, including any waterway) is a bit above that of an OSV capt. Anyway you slice it, moving around an inanimate object that can be sometimes the size of a ship safely in varying sea conditions takes more skill than runnin light boat. Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I agree and AHTS trumps them all.
[QUOTE=AHTS Master;173752]Iām still working in the GOM.[/QUOTE]
Of course you are. Along with most of the other skilled old hands.
Who has been laid off? Mostly guys with less than 10 years experience in the patch?
How many boats are laid up? Two thirds of the smaller shelf boats? One third of the new deep water boats? How much have crew sizes decreased ā 50 percent.
What percentage of the peak OSV work force is now laid off? 50 percent?
There are still thousands of guys earning very good money in the Gulf.
This slow down has been compared to what happened in the 80ās. Well, I have first hand knowledge of where a lot of those fine Gentlemen went looking for work. The answer is TUGS! The complaining about you is better reminds me of how some of the Deep Sea (Large Ships) guys used to talk about the Patch and Tugs / Barges. They for the most part thought working on smaller vessels was beneath them but once things got rough (with shipping jobs disappearing) they moved to Tugs and to a lessor extent the Oil Patch. Once they made the move all we heard was how only they could do these jobs, never mind the fact that some of those that chose the Tug Route had same Unlimited Licenses that they did.
Now as for the Patch Guys that are out looking for work, I can see another 1988 coming for the N.E. Tugs Guys. The only difference is the Wheelhouse Jobs will be harder because of that pesky little thing called Master/ Mate of Towing that is now required. The Wheelhouse might be safe but all rest of the positions would be up for grabs.
In the 80ās Guys from the Patch were more than happy to take jobs by undercutting pay, by a Large Percentage. I was there and witnessed this First hand! Maybe this time will be different but only time will tell.
People wonder why is seems as though some of us seem to be happy about them losing their jobs, as for me I am never happy to see anyone lose a job, never mind a well paying one.
The attitude towards the Oil Patch workers (as seen by those outsiders) is well earned as every time the patch slows down they come running to those Tug and Barge Jobs that were Beneath them just a few months / years ago. So as a whole, I DO feel sorry for them but for the ones that have been running their mouths about how GREAT they are and how NO ONE could do what they do, NOT SO MUCH!
Feel free to slam me for my feelings but anyone that lived through what happened in N.Y. in 88 knows what I am saying is true!
I wasnāt there in 88 but the job isnāt necessarily harder now but itās different, from my understanding. You cannot do ANY damage without a shit storm, everyoneās paperwork (engineer included) must be perfect, basically you must execute the job at a very high level. Youāre always on AIS and camera. Constant contact with office if they want. New guys can come in but itās a long way to being cut loose and companies are still valuing experience. They seem to be wise to the bayoo pay model, a steady but fair check keeps a certain kind of employee vs one who runs off for the short term dollar. The NY office people have lots of experience hiring now, some bad boatmen make it through but the keep the gate locked pretty well.
Overall I know where youāre coming from, and agree.
[QUOTE=z-drive;173775]I wasnāt there in 88 but the job isnāt necessarily harder now but itās different, from my understanding. You cannot do ANY damage without a shit storm, everyoneās paperwork (engineer included) must be perfect, basically you must execute the job at a very high level. Youāre always on AIS and camera. Constant contact with office if they want. New guys can come in but itās a long way to being cut loose and companies are still valuing experience. They seem to be wise to the bayoo pay model, a steady but fair check keeps a certain kind of employee vs one who runs off for the short term dollar. The NY office people have lots of experience hiring now, some bad boatmen make it through but the keep the gate locked pretty well.
Overall I know where youāre coming from, and agree.[/QUOTE]
I honestly hope that you are right but after seeing how the Office People (that used to reap praise on the long time crews) treated long time employeeās once there was a cheaper alternative, I can only hope that they learned their lesson.
Someone close to me was at a meeting in DC that had a lot of the top tier management in attendance and had the chance to speak with the head guy from one N.Y. Tug Company. He asked if they thought the made the correct move when it came to looking back to the 88 strike, this was in the early 2000ās. The answer surprised him as he was told, looking back we made a big mistake and all that it lead to was a pricing war that hurt all of the companies in the long term.
Letās hope that they still remember what happened and do not repeat the mistakes while chasing the All Mighty Dollar!
[QUOTE=josh.reid24;173742]IMaybe itās because your piss poor 200 ton licenseā¦ [/QUOTE]
No one has been able to operate a towing vessel with a ā200 ton licenseā for over 10 years.
too bad there are idiots who think otherwise. Yet again why we need real towing vessel inspections and periodic boardings. Yes, I think boardings are good and welcome them.
Yes, yesā¦let the hatred flow through you.
two sides of a gaping chasm which has no bridge between them
youāll notice which side the sun is setting on?
Jeaux is anything but a socialistā¦he is pure capitalist in every sense of the word. His profits are paramount and the only reason he was willing to shovel money at mariners like he did was to further those profits and continue to keep the pipeline of manpower flowing to fill all those dozens and dozens of newbuilds with the bodies he was required to provide. Further it was because his clients were willing to pay premium rates for those newbuilds which allowed him the luxury to pay premium wages. Even though he raised the pay rates to unprecedented levels he never raised benefits an equal amount because he didnāt have to because the mariners never ādemandedā more than only high pay such as a pension plan for them.
Of course, as the clients began to shed boats and demand lower dayrates for the ones he kept onhire, Jeaux immediately began to slash wages and benefits (Chouestās 401k unilateral after the fact rescission) and he will continue to take back from the mariners now as much as he desires because he can since the mariners have no voice representing them and have no solidarity which plays right into what Jeaux wants at this moment. A one year of low crude prices, Jeaux is not done rolling back on his mariners by a longshotā¦he is going to keep on keeping on with business as usual. Remember that it isnāt personal but only business!
The oil companies are now learning about the importance of cost containment and cost efficiency. Next time the oil patch picks up there will not be so much reckless overspending. The boats will not have twice as much crew as the Certificate of inspection requires, and Jeaux Boss will not be overpaying his crews twice what they are worth either.
It is interesting to try to remember that before the price of crude began its plummet that we were hearing more and more from the majors about how the costs of all services they were required to pay for were rising to levels that could not continue to be sustained. Obviously, the fall in crude was the touchstone to begin the massive cutting of the fat and the rollbacks of their costs. Again, at the end of year one we have not seen the bottom and wonāt until the surplus supply of crude in the world is fully absorbed. Settle in folksā¦this wild ride is far from over.
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We are all hurting in these hard times. I share my money when times are good by giving nice raises and bonuses. It is only fair the crews share in the sacrifices we as a company must make in the down turns. My stock prices has taken a beating which in turns mean my bonus is gonna be a little light this Christmas. I feel bad for everyone but my family is struggling through this bust also. We will get through this and be stronger as company because of it. I built all of these brand new 300ā+ state of the art Large OSVās with the latest in DP and automation systems. I do not see why it is so hard to operate these vessels with the minimum 6 man crew. The Coast Guard would not have approved the COI if this could not be done safely. Why should I over crew them above the minimum required when it doesnāt make good financial sense?
Men of your talent will always have a job, because you understand how the business works.
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;173793] I do not see why it is so hard to operate these vessels with the minimum 6 man crew. The Coast Guard would not have approved the COI if this could not be done safely. Why should I over crew them above the minimum required when it doesnāt make good financial sense?[/QUOTE]
You shouldnāt crew them beyond COI, but were an imbecile to do so in the first place! wish you had all that money back now, perhaps you could afford another professional sports team?
[QUOTE=z-drive;173795]You shouldnāt crew them beyond COI, but were an imbecile to do so in the first place! wish you had all that money back now, perhaps you could afford another professional sports team?[/QUOTE]
I was always told when boats were over crewed was because of the customers erroneous demands.
yes, but donāt think Jeaux boss adjusted the charter accordingly to profit off of the additional payroll. Additional crew getting $500 a day were probably billed at $1000. Minus employment expenses Jeaux was pocketing money on the extra crew! It was good for him.