Near Coastal Question?

[B]Captains License question[/B]

I recently received my 100 Ton Near Coastal masters license.My license reads as follows…

Master of steam or motor vessels of not more then 100 gross registered tons (domestic tonnage) Upon Near coastal Waters. For domestic voyages only,the holder of this credential meets the STCW 1995 regulations without further endorsement.

this is word for word how it reads. my question is what is meant by “domestic voyage only” I thought near coastal meant not more then 200 miles from shore?? What are the boundries of domestic waters?? I live and boat in the atlantic off of new jersey…How far off shore can I go . I tried to Contact the NMC but didnt get much of a explanation. Thank You in advance for any helpful info anyone can provide me …

[QUOTE=DAN BOY;32424][B]Captains License question[/B]

Can I go to the Bahamas ? [/QUOTE]

Bahamas is a foreign country. You are welcome there as a tourist. As long as you have a passport you can come home again with little difficulty.

But, you can’t do it as a master of a vessel. What part of international don’t you understand?

my seaschool instructor said I could under my license, But I didnt believe him so thats why I was looking for others input…sorry to scrape your barnicles capt…AAAArrrrgggg

A domestic voyage is a voyage that is not international.

§ 42.05-45 International voyage.

(a) The term international voyage as used in this part shall have the same meaning as the term international voyage in Article 2(4) of the 1966 Convention. Except for vessels operating solely on the waters indicated in Article 5(2) of the 1966 Convention, an international voyage means a sea voyage from any country to a port outside such country, or conversely. For this purpose, every territory for the international relations of which any specific Contracting Government is responsible or for which the United Nations are the administering authority is regarded as a separate country.

(b) The 1966 Convention does not apply to vessels solely navigating the Great Lakes. Accordingly, such vessels shall not be considered as being on an international voyage for the purpose of this subchapter.

© For the purpose of administration of load line requirements in this subchapter, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Territory of Guam, the Virgin Islands, and all possessions and lands held by the United States under a protectorate or mandate shall each be considered to be a territory of the United States.

So, you can go to Canadian side of the Great Lakes from the US side.

My guess is that you did not submit a certificate for Basic Safety Training, hence the domestic limitation.

200 miles off our coasts. In my view you can run a boat around PR but you can’t run a boat between the USA and PR. The Bahamas and Bimini are close enough, but not domestic, a gray area maybe as I have a hunch there are lots of charter boats running back and forth with near-coastal licenses. We have an agreement with Canada for reciprocity of licenses, I posted it on here a couple of months ago.

[QUOTE=PMC;32456]My guess is that you did not submit a certificate for Basic Safety Training, hence the domestic limitation.[/QUOTE]

I sumitted the diplomas I received from Sea School their was nothing else they gave me to sumit. But my license states i meet the 1995 STCW without further endorsement , so I dont get it…

sounds like you need to do alot of reading on here.Or go to the coast guard website and read the CFR’s. I cant believe you did not even know what Lic you applyed for. What kind of boats are you running?

[QUOTE=skinny stick;32489]sounds like you need to do alot of reading on here.Or go to the coast guard website and read the CFR’s. I cant believe you did not even know what Lic you applyed for. What kind of boats are you running?[/QUOTE]

I know exactly what kind of license i applied for, Its the info from my seaschool instructor that doesnt make sense…

do a search on this forum there is alot of recent (3 or 4 months old) stuff on just this topic.

I would suspect you ‘meet’ stcw 95 requirements because. are you sitting down? vessels UNDER 100 tons don’t even require this!! How’s that to further cloud the issue. You ‘meet’ the requirements because you DON’T have to fulfill ANY of them! Sounds like a stupid phrase to put on a license!

To put the international thing into perspective, Officially there are only two countries that respect our license structure (Canada and Mexico) so we have reciprocity with them. NO other countries officially ’ respect our domestic license. For instance you could conceivably run a boat all the way from new york to rio de janiero brazil, if you stayed within 200 miles of ‘‘shore’’ but if, or when boarded by some overzealous countries officials they could seize you and the boat for operating without a license. Want to chance it? Oh by the way, the Bahamas IS a foreign country!

And if you think that’s confusing, call two REC’s and ask this question. I would be willing to bet $$ that you will get a different answer from each one, with varying degrees of similiarity but NO one will be willing to put the answer in writing. How’s that for responsibility!?

If you knew what type of license you were applying for and had read the CFRs then there shouldn’t have been any surprise when you got your 100 ton ticket. Your ticket was endorsed “Domestic Voyages Only” because you did not submit a Basic Safety Training certificate. Submit one and the restriction will be lifted. As for giving a shit what your seaschool instructor said… I don’t.

[I]Masters/Mates on Passenger Vessels under 100 GRTs and other vessels under 200 GRTs, not on foreign voyages may choose to have their licenses endorsed for “Domestic Voyages only, the holder of this license meets the 1995 STCW requirements without further endorsement”, without meeting any of the below requirements. Those wishing to operate on foreign waters must meet only the Basic Safety Training Requirements listed below.

Basic Safety Training (BST): Includes the following four elements
Personal Survival Techniques
Fire Prevention and Firefighting
Elementary First Aid
Personal Safety and Social Responsibilities[/I]

CAPPY you are exactly right I have had several Emails with NMC and they cant even explain it to me…

[QUOTE=cappy208;32520]do a search on this forum there is alot of recent (3 or 4 months old) stuff on just this topic.

I would suspect you ‘meet’ stcw 95 requirements because. are you sitting down? vessels UNDER 100 tons don’t even require this!! How’s that to further cloud the issue. You ‘meet’ the requirements because you DON’T have to fulfill ANY of them! Sounds like a stupid phrase to put on a license!

To put the international thing into perspective, Officially there are only two countries that respect our license structure (Canada and Mexico) so we have reciprocity with them. NO other countries officially ’ respect our domestic license. For instance you could conceivably run a boat all the way from new york to rio de janiero brazil, if you stayed within 200 miles of ‘‘shore’’ but if, or when boarded by some overzealous countries officials they could seize you and the boat for operating without a license. Want to chance it? Oh by the way, the Bahamas IS a foreign country!

And if you think that’s confusing, call two REC’s and ask this question. I would be willing to bet $$ that you will get a different answer from each one, with varying degrees of similiarity but NO one will be willing to put the answer in writing. How’s that for responsibility!?[/QUOTE]

cut and pasted from NMC website.

The Standards for Training, Certification, and Watchkeeping was created in 1978 and amended in 1995 in order to ensure that US Merchant Mariners have the skills & abilities to serve aboard seagoing vessels. International Maritime Organization (IMO) is the owner of the STCW. The US Coast Guard implements its polices through legal means established in 1978 and amended in 1995.

[ul]
[li] Standards for Training, Certification, and Watchkeeping (IMO)[/li][/ul]
[B]Who must comply with the STCW?[/B]

	 			STCW only applies to Mariners employed on  				vessels greater than 200 Gross Register Tons (Domestic Tonnage),  				or 500 Gross Tons (ITC Tonnage), operating seaward of the  		boundary lines specified in Title 46 CFR Part 7. 

[ul]
[li] Title 46 Code of Federal Regulations[/li][/ul]

	 			For additional information on policy  			guidance in STCW implementation, go back to 			[Policy and  			Guidance](http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/policy_guidance_date.asp). You may also  				contact any of the 17 Coast Guard Regional Examination Centers  				(RECs). To see a list of RECs and their locations, 			[click here](http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/rec_information.asp). 

What you have ‘met’ to comply with STCW is the safety portion and the security portion. Because you have this strangely worded phrase on your license does NOT mean you can go foreign, or loop around the bahamas on a trip. Although you MAY get away with it, I would be certain that it would not be legal to do so. Typically you would never get caught unless there was an accident or you got boarded and an unusually sharp boarding officer figured this out. (most that I have had the pleasure of meeting are so so concerning all the laws.) Usually the boarding detachment is a short time job, with junior guys who have just finished either their OCS school, or are rotating through after attending the classes they need to BE a boarding officer. So usually (in my experience) they concentrate on what the ‘hot topics’ covered in the class they just had. This is just my opinion, with nothing to go on but my 30 years experience, and observations.

So I know this is an old post but…

I think this restriction is on licenses <200GRT. I recently got STCW BST put onto my MMC and it says " for domestic voyages only" I thought STCW was strictly for international voyages! So I have been scanning these forums trying to figure out how this works. My license is for Master 500GRT INLAND, Master 150GRT NC, AB Special… So I was thinking it was either because I don’t have an oceans endorsement of because my NC license is <200GRT. Anybody have any insight here?

[QUOTE=DAN BOY;32424][B]Captains License question[/B]

I recently received my 100 Ton Near Coastal masters license.My license reads as follows…

Master of steam or motor vessels of not more then 100 gross registered tons (domestic tonnage) Upon Near coastal Waters. For domestic voyages only,the holder of this credential meets the STCW 1995 regulations without further endorsement.

this is word for word how it reads. my question is what is meant by “domestic voyage only” I thought near coastal meant not more then 200 miles from shore?? What are the boundries of domestic waters?? I live and boat in the atlantic off of new jersey…How far off shore can I go . I tried to Contact the NMC but didnt get much of a explanation. Thank You in advance for any helpful info anyone can provide me …[/QUOTE]

If the near coastal waters are within the waters of another country (e.g. Bahamas, among others) you need an STCW certificate/endorsement. Your domestic license alone is not sufficient. This is probably something you should know as the Master of a vessel.

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=DAN BOY;32481]I sumitted the diplomas I received from Sea School their was nothing else they gave me to sumit. But my license states i meet the 1995 STCW without further endorsement , so I dont get it…[/QUOTE]

Read the whole thing. It says you meet the STCW without further obligation on a [U]domestic voyage[/U]. If you’re on an international voyage, you need a separate STCW endorsement.

[QUOTE=cappy208;32520]…Sounds like a stupid phrase to put on a license! [/QUOTE]

See 46 CFR 11.202(f): “Notwithstanding paragraph (b) through (e) of this section, § 11.304, and § 11.901, each mariner found qualified to hold any of the following officer endorsements will also be entitled to hold an STCW endorsement corresponding to the service or other limitations on the MMC, because the vessels concerned are [U]not subject to further obligation under STCW[/U] because of their special operating conditions as small vessels [U]engaged in domestic voyages[/U]…” [emphasis added]

I guess it’s also a stupid phrase to put in the CFR?

[QUOTE=cowboy;119327]So I know this is an old post but…

I think this restriction is on licenses <200GRT. I recently got STCW BST put onto my MMC and it says " for domestic voyages only" I thought STCW was strictly for international voyages! So I have been scanning these forums trying to figure out how this works. My license is for Master 500GRT INLAND, Master 150GRT NC, AB Special… So I was thinking it was either because I don’t have an oceans endorsement of because my NC license is <200GRT. Anybody have any insight here?[/QUOTE]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about where STCW rules apply.

STCW applies outsidethe boundary line specified in Title 46 CFR Part 7.

As a rule, on the Atlantic, Pacific, and Great Lakes coasts, the Boundary Line generally follows the high water shoreline, extended across the entrances to small bays, inlets, harbors, rivers, the ends of breakwaters or jetties, etc. In most cases, this means that as soon as an outbound vessel crosses seaward of the entrance, it has crossed outside the Boundary Line.

The boundary line is said to separate inland waters from the “high seas” A domestic voyage which takes you outside the boundary line is subject to STCW rules.

Domestic voyage means a voyage from one United States port to another United States port, without entering waters under the jurisdiction of another country. This includes a voyage to nowhere that returns to the originating port.

It’s not a good idea to assume you know what these terms mean as they have different meanings dependent upon context. This web page from Crawford’s seems useful:

Crawford Nautical School - Definitions

Hey Kennebec I think you answered my question in the other thread about domestic endorsements. Thanks for the help. BTW, are you a Mainiac?

"With the old license you had to have to have two documents, your USCG license and a STCW certificate.

The new Merchant Mariner Credential (the little red book) combines these two documents. Mine has two sections, one is "entitled under Title 46 (Shipping) U.S. Code and says (Domestic only) - this is the old license which is no longer any good on the “high seas” (outside the Boundary lines are specified in 46 CFR Part 7.)

If I flip to the previous page it says it has been issued under the provisions of the International Conventions on STCW. and list my qualifications by regulations in roman numerals II/2 II/4 etc the meaning of which can be found at the Coast Guard NMC web site STCW tab here

This is what the Coast Guard is referring to when they talk about the Domestic and International parts of you credentials,."

[QUOTE=cowboy;119445]Hey Kennebec I think you answered my question in the other thread about domestic endorsements. Thanks for the help. BTW, are you a Mainiac?
[/QUOTE]

Glad to help.

I was looking at some of these post about STCW and so forth and I realized when I got my license in 1985 I didn’t have to figure any of this stuff out. Everything was much more straight forward then.

Yes, born, raised and still live in Maine near the Kennebec River…

[QUOTE=cowboy;119445]…this is the old license which is no longer any good on the “high seas” (outside the Boundary lines are specified in 46 CFR Part 7.)[/QUOTE]

On a U.S. vessel, you need to have a license (“officer endorsement” in the MMC) regardless of where the vessel is operating. If it is where STCW applies, you need both. The STCW alone isn’t enough. On a foreign vessel, you need documents isued by the flag of the vessel.

When NMC refers to “international endorsements” they mean STCW. We have asked them to stop referring to it by that name and call it STCW endorsement as their term is not commonly known by the people they issue the documents to.

The “domestic endorsements” are the old license, now called an “officer endorsement” and the unlicensed ratings that used to appear on the merchant’s mariner document or z-card. This too adds more confusion, the correct terms of “officer endorsement” are still new (I still use “license”), there’s no need to confuse things further by introducing nrew terms that are not defined in 46 CFR 10.107.