[QUOTE=Capt. Nemo;79711]Initially I thought another “radar-assisted collision”, but they weren’t "painting’’ it?.[/QUOTE]
I bet we never hear squat about it again. The Navy is hard pressed to explain how a ship fitted out with a billion dollar radar suite that is touted as the best in the world can miss a ship that is bigger than most buildings. They look like idiots, the scumbag defense contractors who sold the shit to some admiral who probably now collects a huge salary from them should all be sharing prison cells with Mexican drug dealers. It is bad enough that their crap is a taxpayer ripoff but the fact that the admirals personally benefit from the scams is criminal.
I wonder if we ought to close Annapolis as well, it doesn’t seem to be putting out much in the way of seamanship or anything that really benefits the nation. Hell, they can’t even drive little toy boats anymore and we already have more political scam artists than we can stomach.
NAVY tugboats? It would be more to correct to label them tugboats chartered BY the Navy; which I believe are Moran tugs There are no working Navy YTBs in the Hampton Roads
The news reports about the APL Oman in Norfolk are a little off. The “Navy tugs” was actually a “floating causeway”, A small push boat with a series of barges. These are used to lighter from larger ship and transport to shore. These floating causeways have had a history of causing near misses and in one case a collision involving a submarine. I do not know whats worse these or a sailboat race.
[QUOTE=Pilot;79950]The news reports about the APL Oman in Norfolk are a little off. The “Navy tugs” was actually a “floating causeway”, A small push boat with a series of barges. These are used to lighter from larger ship and transport to shore. These floating causeways have had a history of causing near misses and in one case a collision involving a submarine. I do not know whats worse these or a sailboat race.[/QUOTE]
More importantly the are Army warping tugs run by active duty army soldiers doing a JLOTS off Ft. Story.
I suggest gcaptain readers read up on army watercraft.
I was on the SS Equality State doing a JLOTS in 93. We had causeway down the whole port side. An army fella running one of the Mike boats decided to be cool to the new army girl on the boat with him. He lets her drive the boat and attempt to lay along the causeway. She starts angling in too far aft of where the causeway starts and rams a fuel tank. Luckily the fuel level was below the hole. I thought navy guys were piloting all vessels. A mate tells me only the LCAC’s are run by navy. He said everything else was being run by army guys. Who woulda thunk it?
Once upon a time the Army had more boats than the Navy. Ft Eustis was CHOCK-A-BLOCK with boats. Those knuckleheads are dangerous. I was down bound from KMI Richmond in 2008 with light barge on short wire and they just CLUTTERED the James with all kinds o small craft. WOULDN’T answer on ANY channel. Fucking tools.
Wow, I hate to ping on something like this, obviously a bad mark on US in anyway, civilian or navy. But I just cant help it, as Im sitting in the Jebel Ali Seamans center, catching up on gCaptain stories and email, regular internet surfing etc from being out for a few weeks.
Yes, I drove right past the POR on our way in to port, (right as I told the pilot to take off the full astern bell as he was backing us in…go figure!!) shes messed up bad, but the worse part of all of it, Im sitting here, a table beside what must be 2/3’rds of the line staff on the POR, and they are joking and laughing, acting like their time here is a freaking vacation!!!
Its shameful actually, we RAS’d the POR for weeks ahead of this incident, between the obnoxious loud ass music they played during unreps, and the dancing on the bridge wings etc…it makes you wonder what their SA really was or how “locked on” it is.
I spoke with the Iranians twice last night during or SOH transit, but magically my bridge team of 6 (which was increased for the transit) made it through without a scratch.
I hate to knock these guys, but some folks out here are FAR from professional. But with that being said, we deal with some really good ships and crews as well, I guess they just come in all types, as expected.
Yea, I can see that for sure. All joking and drinking telling one another they are “war fighters” and now they did such a good job of saving the ship after that bad tanker hit them. ( saving themselves from themselves is more like it). In my time I worked with navies from a number of countries including our own. None are less professional than the USN, just a fact that becomes apparent when you deal with them from day to day.
[QUOTE=Xmsccapt(ret);80229]Yea, I can see that for sure. All joking and drinking telling one another they are “war fighters” and now they did such a good job of saving the ship after that bad tanker hit them. ( saving themselves from themselves is more like it). In my time I worked with navies from a number of countries including our own. None are less professional than the USN, just a fact that becomes apparent when you deal with them from day to day.[/QUOTE]
And you’ve sworn to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic HOW many times?
I disagree. One can’t credibly sling mud, if they’ve never been a part of it. ‘A mile in my shoes if you will…’
Regardless of that, I STILL have heartburn with the armchair quarterbacking on an event that the jury is still out on. NONE of us had any skin in that event but PORTER’s Bridge Team - for good OR bad. It is RIDICULOUSLY easy to drive the ship from the beach. Wholesale denigration of the Navy serves no purpose to anyone. And for the record, I’ve sworn to protect and the defend a total of six times totaling twenty-two years in the aformentioned U.S. Navy.
I’ve done enough sea time in my life to know a Maritme screw up when I see one. As for walking a mile, I’ve done many more miles in and out of dangerous situations including straits transits, and war zones for that matter than most naval officers up to and including any current admirals you care to name, and most of it with the navy. ( I’ve witnessed them driving a carrier west bound down the east bound land in the malacca straits demanding a 3 mile CPA, and the list goes on). It’s not uncommon for the navy to make such blunders, and when the Jury is in, this will be classified as a USN screw up if truth be told. The USN are rank amateurs when it comes to seamanship and basic ship driving. I worked alongside them for over thirty years and I can count on one hand the USN officers that come to mind I had any respect for. Those are the cold hard facts as not only I see them but others as well that have made similar comments after years working with the USN. While it may sound harsh, after over thirty years one sees a trend…
We may differ In option, so be it. But I can assure you I am not an armchair qb. I’ve been there and back again. Thirty years, twenty as master, no groundings, Collisions, fires, and oddly I never turned left I front of a tanker.
[QUOTE=Xmsccapt(ret);80332]I’ve done enough sea time in my life to know a Maritme screw up when I see one. As for walking a mile, I’ve done many more miles in and out of dangerous situations including straits transits, and war zones for that matter than most naval officers up to and including any current admirals you care to name, and most of it with the navy. ( I’ve witnessed them driving a carrier west bound down the east bound land in the malacca straits demanding a 3 mile CPA, and the list goes on). It’s not uncommon for the navy to make such blunders, and when the Jury is in, this will be classified as a USN screw up if truth be told. The USN are rank amateurs when it comes to seamanship and basic ship driving. I worked alongside them for over thirty years and I can count on one hand the USN officers that come to mind I had any respect for. Those are the cold hard facts as not only I see them but others as well that have made similar comments after years working with the USN. While it may sound harsh, after over thirty years one sees a trend…
We may differ In option, so be it. But I can assure you I am not an armchair qb. I’ve been there and back again. Thirty years, twenty as master, no groundings, Collisions, fires, and oddly I never turned left I front of a tanker.[/QUOTE]
“I’ve sworn to protect and the defend a total of six times totaling twenty-two years in the aformentioned U.S. Navy.”
And I was called into active duty during Nam - SO WHAT - I done my duty and I’m sick of lifers patting themselves on the back.
By the way, WW II, Korea, and Nam was mostly fought by those of us in the reserves. We reserve folks have no need to defend ourselves - we fought - we bleed - we died. I was lucky, I am still here.
[QUOTE=Xmsccapt(ret);80332]I’ve done enough sea time in my life to know a Maritme screw up when I see one. As for walking a mile, I’ve done many more miles in and out of dangerous situations including straits transits, and war zones for that matter than most naval officers up to and including any current admirals you care to name, and most of it with the navy. ( I’ve witnessed them driving a carrier west bound down the east bound land in the malacca straits demanding a 3 mile CPA, and the list goes on). It’s not uncommon for the navy to make such blunders, and when the Jury is in, this will be classified as a USN screw up if truth be told. The USN are rank amateurs when it comes to seamanship and basic ship driving. I worked alongside them for over thirty years and I can count on one hand the USN officers that come to mind I had any respect for. Those are the cold hard facts as not only I see them but others as well that have made similar comments after years working with the USN. While it may sound harsh, after over thirty years one sees a trend…
We may differ In option, so be it. But I can assure you I am not an armchair qb. I’ve been there and back again. Thirty years, twenty as master, no groundings, Collisions, fires, and oddly I never turned left I front of a tanker.[/QUOTE]
Having also “walked a mile”, after fifteen deployments to the Middle East, and almost fifteen years as Master of MSC ships, I can clearly picture what happened in this case, However, I have a hard time reconciling the consistently derogatory tone of xmsccapt’s comments about the USN. He paints the entire Navy with a three-foot wide roller sopped in paint. If he had such a hard-on for everyone in the navy while he was working for them, he should have either quit or committed seppuku. This consistently negative view is not isolated within MSC, with numerous senior officers publicly projecting similar attitudes. The truth is, as so succinctly stated by Salinity Now, is that there are good and bad crews and officers in the US Navy. Give it a break, the facts may well reveal the Porter to be AFU, but not every USS is in the same boat.
[QUOTE=Jolly Tar;80238]And you’ve sworn to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic HOW many times?[/QUOTE]
And just precisely what does that bit of uberpatriotic jingoism got to do with the lack of seamanship and outright arrogance of the US Navy?
If you really want to wave a flag and demand that the country gets some respect, how about demanding that our “representatives” are competent, courteous, knowledgeable and well trained. Then you won’t have to hide behind the flag or stupid comments that imply those who haven’t been in the Navy or military have no right to point out how badly they perform and how they are more and more often seen by the rest of the world as ignorant puffed up incompetent buffoons.
[QUOTE=Xmsccapt(ret);80332] ( I’ve witnessed them driving a carrier west bound down the east bound land in the malacca straits [/QUOTE]
I saw this as well, on an American flagged and crewed container ship, in Singapore Straits. The Captain and third mate were on the bridge. I was second mate and stepped onto the bridge just in time to hear Vessel traffic call us. They said “east bound ship in west bound lane - please use caution”. We were at full sea speed. The third mate had plotted the position wrong and the couldn’t get it together what with the captain yelling and so forth. It was a fast ship and traffic was heavy, Yikes.
The navy uses as different system. They have to crew up air craft carriers submarines etc and operate them in hostile environments, ie launch and recover aircraft in the P.G. What does the merchant marine do by contrast? Sail a tanker out of Valdez without hitting Blight Reef.
Both the navy and merchant marine have their share of screw-ups. If you want pompous and arrogant it would be hard to beat a green third mate with a couple ocean transits under his/her belt.
Obviously some strong opinions on how the Navy is perceived by civilian mariners. If you had a chance to talk with the CNO about solutions or recommendations to improve the way Navy ships are operated what would they be?
[QUOTE=salt’n steel;80361]Obviously some strong opinions on how the Navy is perceived by civilian mariners.[/QUOTE]
Salt, they are two different worlds, the Navy and the Merchant Marine. When I entered active duty I tried my best to accept my new life and didn’t look back on my brief several years sailing as an engineer on cargo ships. THAT served me well. When I received my Honorable and returned back to the US Merchant Marine I put my Navy life behind me and didn’t look back. THAT also served me well.
Sweat-n-grease,
No argument from me on your post. It’s been my experience the best ex-navy guys who make the transition to merchant marine leave the “I used to be” speech behind when they come up the gangway. Not to diminish their service and accomplishments but most merchant mariners wouldn’t understand or care anyway. As for recommendations to improve Navy/civilian vessel interaction, maybe prospective CO/XOs should spend some time as watch officers on a civilian vessel to learn a little more about our side of the seagoing profession.
A very wise man indeed. You get all types from past USN, academy grads and hausepipers as well. One of the best chief mates I ever had was a retired USN QMCS. When I asked him how he survived the USN and still had common sense he told me he left all that behind he came to the civilian sector and knew he had things to learn. He did not dwell on his past USN career and in fact was often the first to point out the downfalls when working with them. The USN could do.a lot to improve their personna. How many commanding officers have we seem recently abuse power, and be relieved of command ( sea and shore). I never could understand how they could take part in an operation, it become a first class cluster and write sitreps that made them out to be heroes. Simply amazing. It seems these days the USN exist to put aircraft in the air, and SEALS on the ground. They do that well at least, but those groups are not the normal navy. The big issues with the SWO community is COs don’t get much time in command. Most are simply punching a ticket for advancement. Some in fact are scared stiff and count the days until.they can move on to a shore based command. A real shame most really don’t enjoy their time in command. At least a majority of the ones I’ve talked to over the years. I had one CO tell me he only had three more unreps and he hoped he could survive.