[QUOTE=Xmsccapt(ret);52127]Yep, stands to reason, a lot of senior masters departed recently and more to follow over the next few months. Msc promoted all the chief mates that could be promoted ( only a few that were mentally impaired were promoted ). Now they don’t have any chief mates. They always need second mates, and engineers are a given, they always need engineers.[/QUOTE]
The bar certainly has been lowered in the Captain department. Yet another climate indicator.
At least most recently there was a correction made in the captain department. One east coast captain has been demoted to chief mate. Seems he sexually harassed a female cadet. The guy should not have been promoted in the first place, and was a real treat to be around. Another case of should have never been promoted in the first place. The present mistake is to retain him as an employee. ( name starts with a giant " T". I suppose that stands for Turd).
I remember in '96 when I wason the Range Sentinal. Admiral Brewer had a new slogan to “rreinvent MSC”. He came to Florida and gave a big dog and pony show. He wanted “inpot” from mariners on what whas wrong with MSC. Some of the guys actually asked him a question. The answer to every question never varied. He said, “That’s a great question and we will be looking into that”. What a joke.
I started with MSC in 19880 and finally quit in disgust in late '96. I just couldn’t take it any more.
Brewer was in my time the worst COMSC there ever was. Your recollection of his meetings are exactly as mine are, " we’ll look into that". In fact it got so bad that was his nick name within the fleet, good old " we’ll look into that Brewer". I once had a one on one with him. Each point made he turned to his Lt aid and said " make a note of that, we’ll look into that". Never heard another word back on anything they were going to “look into”. He also had a second one star Shultz? I think, Anyway, he would travel around with a DC SES level ( name escapes me) who would do the same “we’ll look into” world tours. It got so bad that once the SES came onboard and wanted to meet with the crew of a ship I commanded. I told him it was Sunday, they were on OT, and we had a lot of work to get done before we got underway the next day. Also, that they had heard it all before and I really want to get their hopes up again only to see no action from DC. Brewer was the one behind the Command ship and Sub Tender abortion, or what Msc calls hybrid crews. Yea, that works really well, civmars being commanded by a navy captain. I never set foot on one as chief mate due to the fact I was already perm master by the time that stupid program came around. Can’t imagine being a chief mate and conning a ship, or allowing the navy officer to conn as I stood there on the bridge with my license on the line. The usn are famous for navigation screw ups ( USS Port Royal of recent note). Even more recently one of the Hybrid ships ran over a buoy in Bahrain. I guess Msc is still sorting that mess out. My bet is the usn 06 captain will be moved to a shore side billet where he can do no more harm, and chastise the chief mate for something. In the current usn mindset that prevails within Msc someone has to hang. Oddly, when Brewer retired he went on to head the Los Angeles public school system. Of course he knew no more about education than he did about mariners and going to sea, but no matter they employed him anyway Then, about a year into the job when he displayed the same level of incompetence he did as COMSC they politely asked him to leave. Something to be said about the real world where performance can be measured and if one doesn’t measure up you have to go. Shame the usn and federal gov cannot be ran much the same way.
[QUOTE=Xmsccapt(ret);52238]Brewer was in my time the worst COMSC there ever was. Your recollection of his meetings are exactly as mine are, " we’ll look into that". In fact it got so bad that was his nick name within the fleet, good old " we’ll look into that Brewer". I once had a one on one with him. Each point made he turned to his Lt aid and said " make a note of that, we’ll look into that". Never heard another word back on anything they were going to “look into”. He also had a second one star Shultz? I think, Anyway, he would travel around with a DC SES level ( name escapes me) who would do the same “we’ll look into” world tours. It got so bad that once the SES came onboard and wanted to meet with the crew of a ship I commanded. I told him it was Sunday, they were on OT, and we had a lot of work to get done before we got underway the next day. Also, that they had heard it all before and I really want to get their hopes up again only to see no action from DC. Brewer was the one behind the Command ship and Sub Tender abortion, or what Msc calls hybrid crews. Yea, that works really well, civmars being commanded by a navy captain. I never set foot on one as chief mate due to the fact I was already perm master by the time that stupid program came around. Can’t imagine being a chief mate and conning a ship, or allowing the navy officer to conn as I stood there on the bridge with my license on the line. The usn are famous for navigation screw ups ( USS Port Royal of recent note). Even more recently one of the Hybrid ships ran over a buoy in Bahrain. I guess Msc is still sorting that mess out. My bet is the usn 06 captain will be moved to a shore side billet where he can do no more harm, and chastise the chief mate for something. In the current usn mindset that prevails within Msc someone has to hang. Oddly, when Brewer retired he went on to head the Los Angeles public school system. Of course he knew no more about education than he did about mariners and going to sea, but no matter they employed him anyway Then, about a year into the job when he displayed the same level of incompetence he did as COMSC they politely asked him to leave. Something to be said about the real world where performance can be measured and if one doesn’t measure up you have to go. Shame the usn and federal gov cannot be ran much the same way.[/QUOTE]
I just got your screen name. Clever
I spent three years at MSCHQ part of it while Brewer was there. Very dysfunctional place. The whole institution can’t decide if it wants to be military oro civilian, waaaaaay too many SWOs and ex-SWOs who think they are still in the Navy and the culture seems to forget that HQ exists because of a fleet and not that the fleet exists just to have an HQ.
It is typical inside the beltway mentality. Let’s see how big we can make ourselves and how much of the pie we can grab so we can all justify promotions for ourselves. If you ever want to make sense of what any GS-13 or higher does just read the requirements for SES. It will put everything into perspective.
[QUOTE=KPEngineer;52263]I spent three years at MSCHQ part of it while Brewer was there. Very dysfunctional place. The whole institution can’t decide if it wants to be military oro civilian, waaaaaay too many SWOs and ex-SWOs who think they are still in the Navy and the culture seems to forget that HQ exists because of a fleet and not that the fleet exists just to have an HQ.
It is typical inside the beltway mentality. Let’s see how big we can make ourselves and how much of the pie we can grab so we can all justify promotions for ourselves. If you ever want to make sense of what any GS-13 or higher does just read the requirements for SES. It will put everything into perspective.[/QUOTE]
You nailed it KP! We always said that about the people in Bayonne. They never seemed to realize that we mariners were the only reason their jobs existed.
Exactly right! What gets me most is the retired 06 navy captains that had command of a ship for perhaps 18 - 24 months in a 25 year career and think they know something about shipping and being a mariner. A few years ago the usn sent an active duty O6 to MSFSC. He was a real treat, confirmed natural in the flesh a-hole, pompous dip $h*t. Then when he retired they employed him as the deputy and gave him a GS position. There is more and more dead wood retired naval officers within Msc these days. To make it worse they really think they know something. So here we are in the worst economy for decades and Msc still cannot retain mariners. The fix? They hold study groups, and form blue ribbon panels to see why. Msc was dysfunctional, and from what I understand from my contacts remains so. So much so that most anyone I know that is close to retirement is counting the days until they can retire and depart Msc.
Mr. Jack Taylor, Leon Panetta, President Obama, Time, CNN, FOX,…etc., need to hear this. Expose this threat. That is how the IRS was fixed. And overcharging the government for nothing.
I admire your spunk, but a few facts: Jack Taylor, a nice guy but part of the problem. For years now during his time at Msc due to his lack of leadership MSFSC has dwindled down to the present dysfunctional state. He was not the fix won’t be and due to him not being part of the fix is part of the problem. Panetta? Obama? I doubt they even know what Msc is. Fox news, perhaps on O’Riley or Hannity would you get some spot light, and then only along the lines of where your tax money is going. IRS is fixed? When was that? No, it would take a very large investigation by someone very high up in the federal gov that have a crap. I doubt anyone or any portion of the gov really cares past padding their own nest. So unless fixing Msc gets a high level federal worker something nothing is going to happen. It would be fun to outline on some prime time tv show the abuse, waste and dysfunction of Msc, but it would take a week just to educate the general public on what Msc is. Add to that Msc even with all the problems could still be shown as cost effective when compared to the navy. I wonder what would happen in Joe public learned that the us navy he is paying for does not really go to sea for a living any more. That they employ mariners to do the work for them. Oddly Msc is being employed to do more and more, and there even has been talk of mariners manning the combat ships too. No, they would not shoot he guns, the usn would still co that, but Msc would move the ship, maintain it, and keep it ready for deployment. Then all the usn would do is simply depart their condos, come ride the ship Nd go him in their over priced cars leaving the civmars to man and repair the ship making ready for the next trip.
[QUOTE=KPEngineer;52263] If you ever want to make sense of what any GS-13 or higher does just read the requirements for SES. It will put everything into perspective.[/QUOTE]
o ECQs: The ECQs are made up of five core components that all candidates must possess in order to qualify for an SES position. These components are:
Leading Change: This is the ability to organize thoughts and execute the visions during an ever changing environment.
Leading People: This means that the candidate must display that they can not only lead people in a work environment but also have the ability to help develop others, incorporate teamwork amongst co-workers, and settle disputes quickly.
Results Driven: This is the ability to analyze risk and problems and be able to come up with a decision that will produce high quality results.
Business Acumen: This is the ability to be able to strategically handle human resources, financial resources, and information resources all at the same time.
Building Coalitions: This is the ability to work with different levels of the government at the Federal, state, and even local levels and get all to work in unison towards the same goals.
[I]Exactly right! What gets me most is the retired 06 navy captains that had command of a ship for perhaps 18 - 24 months in a 25 year career and think they know something about shipping and being a mariner. A few years ago the usn sent an active duty O6 to MSFSC. He was a real treat, confirmed natural in the flesh a-hole, pompous dip $h*t. Then when he retired they employed him as the deputy and gave him a GS position. There is more and more dead wood retired naval officers within Msc these days. To make it worse they really think they know something.[/I]
Sounds like MSC is just a microcosm of what’s going on in all government entities. Radio hosts Neil Boortz, and Michael Savage would probably be interested in this 'fleecing of America".
BTW, Most of the Navy “Ustabe” types I’ve met admit quietly admire the CIVMAR licensed who have a level of autonomy they never imagined when they were OOD’s or CO’s. It must be quite a culture shock for them when they transition to civilian shipping world. Some make it ok and some still think they need a salute every time you cross paths.
I used to enjoy BSing with the LTs at HQ about what it was like on a commercial ship. It was like I was speaking a foreign language they just could not envision a bridge watch with less than 10 people.
It seemed to me like MSC was a dumping ground for useless senior officers. I knew about 20 LTs who cycled through while I was there and only 2 of them who didn’t leave the Navy from there.
It is a dumping ground for senior naval officers. Then to make it worse they employ them after they retire from the navy. I know what you mean, none to few know much about really going to sea for a living. The wear a SWO and think they are really something.
It’s not even like their attitude or actions become civilianized either. The only thing that changes is their clothes. There was one O6 who treated people shamefully in my opinion. I left in partly due to him and I wasn’t the only one. He was every bad stereotype of a SWO all rolled into one.
The whole situation at MSC is tragic. I spent three years with MSC and learned a lot about ships, people and working for the government. I left after being promoted to second mate after meeting with the C/E and 1 A/E who both told me to get the hell out before I became addicted to the money or stayed too long and started to be considered unemployable by the commercial world… My whole family was/is Navy, so I have heard it from their point of view about MSC and Merchant Mariners in general. They do stand in awe of the ability of one mate being able to stand a watch and that the mates are expected to function autonomously on the Bridge without constant hand holding. Many of the complaints that are being made about he civilians are the same complaints that are shoreside for the regular Navy as well… After sailing for just three years as a junior officer it seems to me that it all comes down reliefs. I got screwed on my relief three consecutive times, I was over due for months, until the ship left the Persian Gulf after which there were people falling all over themselves to take my position. At which time I refused the relief and enjoyed my time the MED. The whole system is fucked MSC, the Navy, Navy training, etc. And now, from what I hear, the Navy has cut even deeper into the liberty ports for MSC, one of the only recruiting points that no commercial company could compete on… I am glad I did what I did and left when I did for the commercial world, the senior captain I sailed for predicted this big mess back in 2005.
The MSC I knew and grew up in is [B][I][U]DEAD[/U][/I][/B]. The quicker I can accept that truth and move on, the better.
Looks like they are going to go for 4 months on / 2 months off for CIVMARs by getting approval to increase the Shore Leave we get each pay period. Do you think this will help? Most want to stay on the ships more than 4 months. You rarely come across a “4 and go” type, especially on the East Coast ships.
MSC crewing is completely mismanaged. I don’t know why anyone would put up with it.
Crew is scarce.
Where did you hear this? There has been whispers now for some time I understood theyd need an act of congress to get it approved