MSC in really bad shape regarding manning

I got this from some of my sources still with Msc. The score card:

AWOL 241. ( absent without authorization )
Non fit for duty: 396
active leave request: 1069
Over due for vacation: 144. ( 58 replacements identified)

Overall, not good. Add to this recently MSFSC took away the ability for the ships to grant funded leave. This is a program that allows the crew member to depart the ship on leave, have transportation paid for but the ship sails short for the duration of leave. Recently some brain child decided to stop the program during an ill-conceived, useless pilot program. Now the end result is massive overdue crew members covering the globe. Msc proves once more the lunatics are running the asylum.

241 AWOL? That is nuts. Does that mean that there are 241 new openings with MSC?

Ship sponsored leave is a glue that helps keep MSC fiefdoms together. It’s destructive to productivity, undermines authority, and creates a culture of ass-kissing, favoritism and entitlement. Never in my eight years shipping that pre-dates my MSC time have I seen such gross disfunction. Ship sponsored leave is partly to blame. (Blame also goes to endless homesteading by officers and crew.)

I’m in the pool right now. There are loads of people here. I’m in an overflow hotel because of the mass of people. If there is a glut of overdue, and I can believe that there are, it’s not due to a lack of warm bodies.

No. It likely means there are 200 errors where people who are counted as AWOL are actually where they should be. I was counted as AWOL until today because someone goofed up and put me in the naughty list.

Well, that’s one unlicensed view, and one I don’t personally share. However that said, I never liked funded ships leave as it places the manning issue in the lap of the ship to fix. For too long the masters took on msc’s lack of ability to man ships on themselves to fix via this program. Generally funded leave was granted during ship yard periods when most of the crew would be departing anyway, hence it would have little to no effect in pool manning one way or another. If indeed there are once more an overflow situation in the pool while at the same time there are overdue personnel at sea, it’s not the fault of ships funded leave but once more the inability of Msc to organize.

It means they are cleaning house and finding a ton of people missing. Yes, there may well be openings with Msc for those that care to take the plunge.

I’m curious as to why you disagree. I’ll explain my views as to why ship funded leave is crap. Where to begin?

When a person stays on the same ship for a long time he becomes entitled and complacent. (This applies to licensed and unlicensed alike.) He often feels that because he is an old hand he has nothing to prove - and then behaves that way. He may be capable of excellent work but human nature will cause him to do less and less until he is quite worthless.

You must have noticed new hands and new hires often work with a purpose? They have something to prove. It’s the old timers that are in their rooms.

The old hands also suck up more resources then their work deserves. It’s the old hand who gets the overtime or the premium pay job or an easy job. The new hands may become discouraged if they never receive these benefits resulting in a reduction of productivity. I have seen this many times at MSC, union ships and non-maritime jobs ashore. This is human nature.

Discipline suffers from ship funded leave. As officers and crew live and work together for years they become friendly. Too friendly. At some point order breaks down and the superior can’t order his friend to do something (like not watching tv on overtime). He won’t discipline his friend and others see this and either expect similar treatment or become hostile when they do not receive the same.

On a more nefarious level, and it does exist, a subordinate may manipulate a superior with a few skeletons from the closet. The worst example I’ve seen was a crewman manipulating his C/M with the implied threat of informing his wife with what happens on deployment involving the C/M, a couple of young girls and a camera.

This could be reduced if people moved from ship to ship and didn’t stay for years.

Another benefit of moving around is people will learn new things, or relearn old things. If someone only does the same job on the same ship for the same people their skills will stagnate or decay until they are unable to do much else. One trick ponies are bad for circuses and ships.

Fatigue and burn-out are also endemic to a person on a ship for too long. But I’ve rattled on for too long so I’ll stop here.

I’ll just say that ship funded leave is beneficial to a management that wants to put little effort into managing. I can see no valid reason for the acceptance of the complacency I see at MSC.

By the way, not that it matters at all to this discussion, but I have a license.

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It seems to me you were burned by someone or some situation and you lay the blame mainly on the SFL program or homesteading in general. I won’t go line regarding your narrative but safe to say I don’t agree with about 99 percent of it. I have not found people attached to the ship for long periods to be a bad thing. It tends to give stability, also people working together and knowing how to work together is a positive. Other situations such as unlicensed having personal knowledge of a chief mate’s actions ashore or a crew member spending time in his or her room during work hours could be an issues no matter how long someone was attached to a ship, and should be addressed as issues with those people, not blamed on a program. SFL has been used wisely onboard ships in the past, mainly due to the fact often the ship management team can take better care of their people than the office. I was not in great favor of SFL as it was my view the office should take better care of personnel and not leave it up to the ship to solve relief or overdue problems.

The great failure recently has been the collapse of the N00H program. Admiral Buzby started it with great enthusiasm and a promis that those that didn’t get on the bus would end up under it. that has completely disintegrated. Once again, the career knuckleheads in Norfolk have played the beaureucratic “rope-a-dope” to outwit and stonewall any substantive change. There was a complete overhaul of the promotion system, a new much better hiring model, revised instructions to stop the pool gaming, a managed leave and training program, new training ideas and other innitiatives that could have really made a difference. Norfolk hunkered down and faught out the business as usual war and has won hands down.
I blame thier victory on the complete lack of intestinal fortitude at HQ. They shoudl have fired a bunch of those boneheads in Norfolk (I bet if we all made up a list, 75% of the names on them would be the same). We should take a page from the RNAF in Britain. thier office is run by actual fleet mariners that rotate through and then go back to sea. people that have an actual clue about the lives and missions the affect. As long as that same crew of civil service placeholders in running the show, all we can do is hunker down and look out for each other. In the end, the only entities that can be relied on at all to do ANY looking out for us if the unions.

I hear the rope-a- dope crowd may soon get rolled over with the DC crown moving in and taking over. Perhaps they will be relegated to counting paper clips and making sure the staple guns are loaded in a back office like they did Casidy a few years ago.

The evaluation program is a joke and pure fantasy as it does not evaluate anyone, at least not in the senior afloat levels. Just some program that Becker ( west coaster ) was trying to get done for years, then in the void of leadership finally got traction before he retired. While the past evaluation system could be improved the present one does nothing but complicate the need for one.

I don’t know about the RFA, but hear good things about it and known people that did tours there. The sad news is that Msc remains the dumping ground for low performing naval officers, then when they retire in true Msc wisdom they employ them in GS positions. I doubt the RFA follows that path of logic.

[QUOTE=Xmsccapt(ret);53642]I got this from some of my sources still with Msc. The score card:

AWOL 241. ( absent without authorization )
Non fit for duty: 396
active leave request: 1069
Over due for vacation: 144. ( 58 replacements identified)

Overall, not good. Add to this recently MSFSC took away the ability for the ships to grant funded leave. This is a program that allows the crew member to depart the ship on leave, have transportation paid for but the ship sails short for the duration of leave. Recently some brain child decided to stop the program during an ill-conceived, useless pilot program. Now the end result is massive overdue crew members covering the globe. Msc proves once more the lunatics are running the asylum.[/QUOTE]

The way around that rule of no more ship funded leave, is to let the guys pay their own way home and return to the ship on their own dime. And it does happen!

Could work, I’d take it a step farther, no contract hotels and no subsistence when in the pool. Some years ago that was the norm. That would cut down on the pool sitters and winers. SFL is not a bad program, was mainly designed for repair periods. But as I said before, it takes the responsibility away from Msc placement to locate a timely relief. In the past some placement offices would not allow it, then would allow it when reliefs got tight. I say you can’t have it both ways ( the office). I always tried to get the best deal for the civmars onboard, and often SFL option was the best del for them and the ship. Nothing is perfect you know.

When I started with MSCLANT in 1980 you were on your own. I stayed at the Hudson Motor Plaze (NoTel Motel) or at a rooming house on Pomona Ave in JC. then they converted the old base movie theatre into seaman’s quarters (what we called “The Dog House”). That was a disaster. We all thought we died and went to heaven once they started providing hotels and per diem pay. But man, the sick, lame and lazy figured out the gravy train in a hurry! Used to hear guys joking about receiving their free government cheese while online for the weekly check.

Yep, I remember those days. I think in those days there were a better class of mariner as well. Back then most of the mariners were prior commercial with a smaller group of retired navy bosn mates. The work force was not then spoiled by the " nanny state " Msc has now grown. They expected northing more than a job, and didn’t want to sit in the pool awaiting a certain ship or location. Add to that most of the deck gang then came to the ship knowing how to tie knots, splice, and rig a bosn chair. These days, most of the deck gangs were supply utilities mere months before and most don’t know squat about being a seaman. Msc quality has really suffered over the past ten years, most of the good ones retired or departed for other jobs where they were at least more appreciated.

MSC got exactly what it wanted. They wanted mariners with no knowledge of the outside world. This way they could retain and control them with ease. However, MSC can’t have qualified, skilled and knowledgeable mariners who are also obedient and afraid to leave the nest so they chose.

Some truth to that I’m sure. Problem is, Msc has had a complete turn over of manning over the past few years. A lot of talent is gone, and newer blood has not proven to be as well indoctrinated. When you have a 100 percent turn over in most ratings it’s very hard to find continuity.

[QUOTE=DeckApe;53858]MSC got exactly what it wanted. They wanted mariners with no knowledge of the outside world. This way they could retain and control them with ease. However, MSC can’t have qualified, skilled and knowledgeable mariners who are also obedient and afraid to leave the nest so they chose.[/QUOTE]

We should be so lucky that they were so clever! They’re not Machiavellian.

[QUOTE=Xmsccapt(ret);53855]Yep, I remember those days. I think in those days there were a better class of mariner as well. Back then most of the mariners were prior commercial with a smaller group of retired navy bosn mates. The work force was not then spoiled by the " nanny state " Msc has now grown. They expected northing more than a job, and didn’t want to sit in the pool awaiting a certain ship or location. Add to that most of the deck gang then came to the ship knowing how to tie knots, splice, and rig a bosn chair. These days, most of the deck gangs were supply utilities mere months before and most don’t know squat about being a seaman. Msc quality has really suffered over the past ten years, most of the good ones retired or departed for other jobs where they were at least more appreciated.[/QUOTE]I hear you. even when I left in 97, a lot of the old timers were retiring. Guys that I learned my seamanship from were retired or dead. guys who had sailed on the “Big U” or had ships torpedoed out from underneath them in the Big One. Guys like the late, great Jimmy Weir, Harry Meadows and Andy King. God bless them all.

I’m pretty sure Andy King is still sailing. Tiny is working down at the Cape last I heard.

I worded that all wrong! Sorry and mea culpa. I didn’t mean to imply that either Andy or Harry was dead and gone! Tiny was probably the best Bos’n and desent human beings I ever sailed with. What a pleasure to work with. Last I saw of him, he was working on the casino boat in CC. How about little Jack McClory? Any word on him?