You are all missing the point. “it’s all about the money, honey”. I’ve been in the oil patch 15 years. 190’s to 280’s. 5 man crew to 15. GOM, Africa and now CA. I am now working 21 and 21 and making enough to enjoy life a little when I am off. Big license, little license. Big boat, small boat. Union, non union. I doubt they will take away what I have and it works just fine for me. Carry on gentlemen. Lol.
[QUOTE=Azimuth;83982] Other countries have limited tonnage as well, just not other trade restricted licenses.[/QUOTE]
Not true. There are plenty of restricted licenses for areas and type of vessels and restrictions within those restrictions. For example, a license limited to service on a yacht of less than 500 tons within 60 miles of a safe haven. They even have licenses restricted to particular rivers and harbors.
Our license scheme is less complicated than many but the quagmire of exemptions and backdoor deals made to satisfy one operator or another smacks of corruption more than marine safety.
[QUOTE=Steamer;83987]They even have licenses restricted to particular rivers and harbors… [/QUOTE]
But do they have licenses restricted to mule-drawn pasenger barges on the C&O Canal?
I was trying to point out to c.captain that things are different from when he last worked on a mud boat. He keeps saying things have to be done the “bayou way”. Those days have passed. He keeps saying that osv licenses are not needed any more. I’ve also seen others make the same comments. All say that there are more than enough UL people to fill these jobs. So I a say where are these people? If there are thousands of UL licensed people looking for work when are they gonna show up and displace everyone with an osv license. I’m saying every position from 190ft to 300+ft. Its nonsense that 300ft is the magic number where a mud boat turns into a ship. Either there is a shortage of licensed people or their ego want allow them to work on such small vessels. So until they show up in numbers an osv license is needed. The companies will have to tie up boats for lack of crews. Just because you have an UL license doesn’t mean you get preferential treatment for a spot on a 300ft vessel. If you want a job down here you’re gonna have to work a 220 or a 240 maybe. They’ve been making these large OSV’s for over ten years. Where was the outrage when the first large osv endorsements were issued. Why didn’t a whole bunch of UL people come running down here and take those jobs? We all know why, because none of them cared while they had their tanker job. Now all those deep sea jobs are scarce and the $ is good down here. There are only so many drill ship and drilling jobs to be had. OSV’s still out number drill ships and rigs. The mud boat jobs pay what deep sea jobs pay now. The “bayou way” is behind us now. I think ship guys are scared to work down here because the captain has to actually drive his vessel and the chief has to get sweaty and dirty.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;83991]I was trying to point out to c.captain that things are different from when he last worked on a mud boat. He keeps saying things have to be done the “bayou way”. Those days have passed. He keeps saying that osv licenses are not needed any more. I’ve also seen others make the same comments. All say that there are more than enough UL people to fill these jobs. So I a say where are these people? If there are thousands of UL licensed people looking for work when are they gonna show up and displace everyone with an osv license. I’m saying every position from 190ft to 300+ft. Its nonsense that 300ft is the magic number where a mud boat turns into a ship. Either there is a shortage of licensed people or their ego want allow them to work on such small vessels. So until they show up in numbers an osv license is needed. The companies will have to tie up boats for lack of crews. Just because you have an UL license doesn’t mean you get preferential treatment for a spot on a 300ft vessel. If you want a job down here you’re gonna have to work a 220 or a 240 maybe. They’ve been making these large OSV’s for over ten years. Where was the outrage when the first large osv endorsements were issued. Why didn’t a whole bunch of UL people come running down here and take those jobs? We all know why, because none of them cared while they had their tanker job. Now all those deep sea jobs are scarce and the $ is good down here. There are only so many drill ship and drilling jobs to be had. OSV’s still out number drill ships and rigs. The mud boat jobs pay what deep sea jobs pay now. The “bayou way” is behind us now. I think ship guys are scared to work down here because the captain has to actually drive his vessel and the chief has to get sweaty and dirty.[/QUOTE]
It’s not that there aren’t the UL people Fraq because there are but the OMSA companies to this day treat the UL people as suspect so in my opinion still do not want them if they can avoid hiring any. They certainly would rather have the young guys right from the schools as opposed to those with experience. You do know that the Congress has authorized that the Large OSV licenses be upped to 9000 tons now and you know that was OMSA’s desire. It is all about making sure that the UL people are not “needed” by the operators thus not giving them any leverage at all in the GoM offshore vessel industry.
The GOM seems to be more lobbied and political the current election going on. The politicians just need to remember where the ‘grease’ comes from when greasing each others palms.
Well said!! You are so fu$&in right!
I’m gonna have to flag you on that one Cap. I’m calling bullshit. I’ve talked with our recruiting department and I’m telling you they will hire ANY qualified mariner. We even have ex union guys working in the fleet. You keep saying boat companies don’t want UL masters or chiefs and I say you’re taking out of your ass. Would the UL people who have applied for a job at HOS, ECO, HGIM etc please speak up and tell us how you were turned away for having an UL license. Tell us how you were turned down for being a Yankee or whatever.
[QUOTE=jdcavo;83989]But do they have licenses restricted to mule-drawn pasenger barges on the C&O Canal?[/QUOTE]
Nah, the CG doesn’t issue endorsements to foreigners. But the Brits have a certificate for use on “narrow” water less than 1.5 meters deep.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;84031]I’m gonna have to flag you on that one Cap. I’m calling bullshit. I’ve talked with our recruiting department and I’m telling you they will hire ANY qualified mariner. We even have ex union guys working in the fleet. You keep saying boat companies don’t want UL masters or chiefs and I say you’re taking out of your ass. Would the UL people who have applied for a job at HOS, ECO, HGIM etc please speak up and tell us how you were turned away for having an UL license. Tell us how you were turned down for being a Yankee or whatever.[/QUOTE]
Ok, maybe the world along the Bayoo has changed since 2006/07 when I last worked for OMSA companies but back then, being a Yankee with a UL license and having been in a union was looked at pretty harshly. Guys like us could work but it was with a “you’re in our world now so you’d better keep your mouth shut and suck it up or go pound sand” warning from Mr. Gary/Shane/Otto/Todd et all.
Tell me how it is different today? Many UL masters sailing as master (1st captain in the Fourchon parlance) at HOS on other than the 4 MPSV’s? I’m assuming that if there are any, they work 28/14 as opposed to 28/28?
That’s a big one in my book. I won’t work 28/14 not living in the GoM region and having a life beyond my work.
And I red card you Fraq on the Otto Candies parking lot! I mean come on…grass and a chainlink fence! People blocking eachother with an eff you attitude! Been like that forever and why the fuck can’t the company have a load of crushed rock dumped there and the fences extended out? Not like they don’t have the room?
The thing is that I blame the mariners for not telling that phat Grady to go phuk himself!
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Even time is an option at every company.
[QUOTE=Diesel;83893]Do you understand what constitutes an OSV?[/QUOTE]
Inspected under subchapter L 46CFR…doesn’t matter the vessel’s particular employment or purpose. The USCG determines the subchapter any vessel will be inspected and manned under. Vessels that would normally be classified as “miscellaneous industrial vessel” viz subchapter I are falling under OSV subchapter L instead (large OCLLC subsea vessels as a matter of point)
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You need to get off that 28/14 stuff to Cap. Chouest is the only company that I know of that hires you at 28/14. Most people that fly in work 28/28. I have no idea how many UL masters and chiefs are in the OSV fleet but I do know we have them. It’s just a pisser you keep bashing the OSV mariners and the companies. I’m sorry you got showed up by some local boy or whatever happened while working down here. It may not have been that you weren’t from down here people may have told you to shut up because they were tired of your bloviating and pontificating. Happens on here all the time I could see it happening in person as well. I can’t wait to get my 9000 itc endorsement or whatever OMSA works out for us. Until all the UL guys come down here in force and show us up or displace us the osv endorsements will be necessary. Put up or shut up guys or just quit bitching about it. There are so many boats under construction we all know every company is short.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;84031]I’m gonna have to flag you on that one Cap. I’m calling bullshit. I’ve talked with our recruiting department and I’m telling you they will hire ANY qualified mariner. We even have ex union guys working in the fleet. You keep saying boat companies don’t want UL masters or chiefs and I say you’re taking out of your ass. Would the UL people who have applied for a job at HOS, ECO, HGIM etc please speak up and tell us how you were turned away for having an UL license. Tell us how you were turned down for being a Yankee or whatever.[/QUOTE]
That’s rather disingenuous as they would never say they are turning you away for being overqualified or over licensed anymore than they would say you were too black, too old, too far away from the bayou etc. That would open up a can of worms they don’t want. However, I don’t believe that many qualified unlimited mariners are turned down by the larger companies if an opening exists. I do know that it is harder for an OSV unlimited person to jump to the drillships than vice versa.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;84044]Put up or shut up guys or just quit bitching about it.[/QUOTE]
And there it is in a nutshell but with one small correction…replace the “or” with “and”! We’ll let you Yankees work here but you work on our (Bayou) terms which means no matter how big they are, they’re all “boats” and will be run like a boat…viz no chief mate but 2nd captain! That is what gives it all away…the MPSV’s have chief mate’s but the OSV’s have 2nd captains! Someday, we’ll have 450’ and 7500grt with the same system as long as OMSA gets what it wants from the USCG.
You’re probably right about that. I’m not gonna worry about it I’ll keep collecting my silver. It definitely beats being part of the cart crew in the Walmarx parking lot. You wanna be xenophobic about it then here you go… American by birth Southern by the grace of God! Hows that? Is that what you wanted to hear?
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;84047]Is that what you wanted to hear?[/QUOTE]
I wanna lay siege to KP again!
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As I said before this whole thing is about greed. Back in 2004 or 2005, when ever it was that this 6000ITC OSV endorsment come about, it had nothing to do with the company’s not wanting the unlimited people or the license’s that come with them. It was very simple, the mud boat company’s at that time did not want to have to pay unlimited wages. If you go back to one day before hurricane Katrina, the wages for officers have for the most part tripled. The blue water guys that would not have looked at a mud boat back then suddenly want to come to work down on the bayou now, because the money is way up, and the schedlules are better than working 90 and 90 or 260 and 80 as the one guy stated.
The problem I see is that when you have guys that have been running 260-300 foot DP class mud boats for most of there career, you now have to compete with an unlimited master that has never been on a DP boat. The OMSA companies have proven that the 6000ITC thing works, because there have for the most part been very few accidents, so they don’t have much incintive to change now. So in a way it does put the unlimited master at a disadvantage, for the short term. until he gets all his DP stuff signed off. If he can even get hired without it.
As I said earlier, we are the only country in the entire world with this system, and it just has to deep of roots and to many politicans in to many hip pockets to ever be changed now.
that sounds perfect and is very true
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;83653]So where are all the unlimited tonnage Gods? Why aren’t we overrun with unlimited tonnage awesomeness? Let me guess they’re doing us a favor by staying away. If they stay in the thriving blue water industry wages will stay good for us. Wow thanks unlimited tonnage Gods. There is plenty of justification if the vessels can’t be manned. The only reason anyone cares is because this is where the work is now. If there were plenty of deep sea jobs no one would give shit about what happens on the bayou. Sounds like people have a big fancy license but no super tanker or freighter to drive. Now you wanna drive the fancy new mud boat you wouldn’t have looked at twice years ago.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ChiefRob;84051] As I said earlier, we are the only country in the entire world with this system, and it just has to deep of roots and to many politicans in to many hip pockets to ever be changed now.[/QUOTE]
Sad but so true, Chief.
Thanks to gCaptain, we, on this forum, are allowed to express our thoughts.
We shall keep posting, and good for us. I am learning a lot from our forum members, including you, Chief, and many others.
We are the United States Merchant Seamen. Listen to us.