[QUOTE=c.captain;122107]There it is in a nutshell…as far as I am concerned you just gave away the whole fallacy of KP. It isn’t young men and women who want to be mariners going there but military wannabes who couldn’t make it into one of the military academies yet there are thousands of other young men and women who want to be mariners attending state schools and having to pay their tuition. THIS SHOULD NOT BE AND IT IS WRONG!
You can be proud all you like but you cannot combat the simple logic of my argument.[/QUOTE]
This is where I get conflicted, defending an institution I spent most of my career despising for the same reasons as everybody else. I guess it’s different once you have a vested interest. I agree with you on one level, but to compare KP to state schools would be like comparing apples and oranges at a fundamental level. Absolutely they are military wannabes, which is why they all chose that path. At the end, they all have years of military reserve requirements. Each one has a full understanding that they can be called to active duty at the government’s pleasure.They are military with an option to go merchant marine, as opposed to state schools who are merchant marine with only an option to go military. That option at state schools only comes through a Naval Reserve scholarship. That scholarship offers a free ride, plus stipends throughout their four years… just like KP.
Something else I didn’t know until recently, a large part of KP’s budget comes from alumni. Building construction, boats, and maintenance derived from prior students. I don’t know if the other service academies can make that claim. In the end, if they weren’t going to KP, they be enrolled in scholarship programs elsewhere at the tax payer’s expense. At least with this 4 yr school, the Navy is getting officers from a program that is closely modeled after their own. My only hope is that they can somehow remove the ‘asshole element’ so many of their officers have going out in to the real world.
If the mission is to create a never ending source of professional qualified mariners for a national emergency to man the reserve fleet, then the money should go to state school students with their having to serve in the reserve (SSO). Let all other military wannabes either go ROTC or OCS if they can’t get into Annapolis, West Point, Colorado Springs or New London. Enough with spending $80+ million a year to graduate a small handful, most of which spend little if any time at sea after they graduate.
KP is an old and now long obsolete school which the US cannot afford for what it gets in return. Spend half of KP’s budget on state academy students and you will get more officers for less money. Simple irrefutable economics!
Which cuts right to the heart of the matter. The average 4yr ROTC scholarship, which can include universities outside of the maritime academies, can be worth $180K to $250K. With some rough math, the same student body could be moved through the university system for about half of that $80 million. The bigger question to ask in all of this is if their curriculum even relevant anymore in today’s Merchant Marine? I can’t speak for the other schools, but I have read where A&M has taken great strides in keeping up with the technology and the industry in general. There has been quite a buzz about a DP simulator yet to com on line. Kings Point has been a marine tradition throughout the years, alongside all the other national maritime academies of the world. But with today’s budget woes, I do believe a lot of people are asking the very same questions you are. Yeah, I could see where this would be on the list of budget cuts. I imagine the NOAA Officer Corps can’t be too far behind.
the USA’s most “modern” DP training vessel, the TV KINGS POINTER towing the world’s largest floating butt plug
As part of reforms to its curriculum, the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy is developing a set of elective courses to teach midshipmen about the brownwater shipping industry.
The Kings Point, N.Y., federal maritime academy was founded in 1937 to support the U.S. commercial shipping industry and enhance national security. Students graduate with a bachelor’s degree, an unlimited tonnage U.S. Coast Guard license and a commission in the armed services.
The traditional focus has been preparing graduates for bluewater jobs on large commercial oceangoing vessels. But the maritime industry is changing. As the inland river and offshore industries are growing rapidly, the academy is adapting its curriculum to these brownwater sectors.
This year’s incoming class, the class of 2017, will be the first that will follow a new curriculum just approved by the Coast Guard that encompasses new STCW (Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping) requirements for mariners. A new set of electives has also been added that will explore “Coastal and Inland Vessel Operations,” with courses in tug, towing and small vessel operations, brownwater piloting and navigation, and coastal and inland vessel management.
“Our graduates are prepared to work across the industry,” Rear Adm. James A. Helis, USMMA superintendent, said in an interview. “We are seeing sustained growth in offshore and inland, and we must go in that direction.”
More inland companies are coming to campus to recruit, and more students are showing a sincere interest in joining that industry, according to Dr. Shashi Kumar, academic dean. He said 59 of the 202 graduates in 2013 listed their job choice as brownwater — the highest number ever.
“It’s a different kettle of fish today,” said Kumar, a master mariner and former dean at Maine Maritime Academy. “There are students coming to us now who grew up along the Mississippi River or other coastal or inland states and have knowledge of the industry and want to work in it.”
They are also exposed to the industry through career seminars, family associations, the Internet and internships, he said.
Kumar said the academy is trying to secure funding for a new tug simulator.
Also on the school’s wish list is a dynamic positioning system simulator. DP systems are now standard on most offshore vessels. The academy’s new training ship, a NASA vessel that is currently being upgraded at a Florida shipyard, will have a DP system.
Howbout adding some “blackwater” courses to the curriculum there Captain K? Afterall, KP is just a huge turdbowl of Federal waste!
[QUOTE=Sea Opus;122100]I’m a Kings Point Parent. Also for the record, anyone who has know me for the long haul can remember some pretty choice comments I have made over the years about Kings Pointers, but now that I find myself in this peculiar position- I couldn’t be prouder of my kid.[/QUOTE]
yeah, and that makes you a douchebag. you want to bad mouth the place and the alumni and then be happy that your son is there… he shouldn’t have been allowed in.
i can’t stand the place, and can’t stand all the grads (including many of my own classmates) who never made any attempt to go to sea.
i took me 9 mos and dozens of drillship company appliocations to get my current job and now i’m working with 2 engineers and 1 mate that graduated no more than 2 yrs ago on a foreign flag MODU. i never set foot on anything foreign flag for my first 10yrs.
so, for any of you non-SSOP cadets at state maritime schools who are having a hard time getting a job on a drillship or a foreign flag large OSV run by HOS or ECO or whomever, you can give partial thanks to KP.
and the last time i checked the Navy has no need for DP operators when it’s time to mobilize for war.
i’ve officially made my vote to close the place down.
Ahhh…no matter what any one of us thinks, this current situation just SUCKS x 1000, period, end!
It’s getting worse day by day folks. Now we can’t issue fishing permits to Alaska fishermen for King Crab?
Ah. kick NOAA Fisheries Management in the shins…hey, that’s easy to do, but kick your Congressman/woman in the shins even harder- for not getting us back to work!
Well, the shutstrom is over and the KP kiddies get to go back to their free edumacations. With the press that the school had to close placing a spotlight on the place for once will it open the eyes of those in Washington that we are perpetually funding a USMMA which is no longer needed 70 years after it was opened? I sure hope so but ain’t holding my breath.
[QUOTE=z-drive;121830]The few KP kids I’ve sailed with were definitely from well off families. Must have traded favors to get the kids free college.
Not saying its as universal as others do but it is in my experience with the place.[/QUOTE]
i find myself standing part of my 12hr DPO watch alongside a spoiled brat, effing KP 3rd mate from the a mid atlantic state who has no idea that he is making great money at 23 yrs old. he has only been working for 6 mos since he graduated in 2012.
if, as a non KP grad, i had worked alongside someone like this who runs his mouth like he does i would have a hard time not associating the place with such a personality.
to any of you who had to put up with the type of crap i’m listening to right now from a kid whose parents own a multimillion $ beach house that went to school on a 95% scholarship at the taxpayer’s expense, i feel for you.
this is also part of the reason why KP kids should not be allowed to work MODUs. this kid would not cut on an OSV, let alone a ship.
i’m disgusted by this kid, and I would be no matter where he graduated from. so please don’t be posting “thank you” just b/c he’s KP. i’m thoroughly disgusted by KP even allowing drillers to recruit at KP. i don’t know how many do it, but i do know for sure Ensco was there for sure in April of this year.
i’m not sure whose to blame more, him for his attitude or the company that would give someone that young so much money while so many experienced mates and engineers can’t get a single callback from the drillers for entry level positions. right before i posted the original comment about him he was complaining about not grossing $100k. it was really hard to keep my mouth shut. this is his first job…
i don’t think any new grads should be getting hired as mates or engineers on MODUs b/c it’s skewing reality and reasonable work/reward relationships.
What’s wrong with starting as a motorman or AB on a MODU? those positions start at $82k on this ship. to put that in perspective, if you were able to get 6mos of work as a 3/m or 3a/e on crowley express ships and green car carriers you might make 90K. that’s a HUGE if on the 6mos and that’s also before union initiation of several thousand dollars and some %of all vacation checks. you probably wouldn’t do much better at OSG as a tanker mate, but if you do, you’re a PIC and you should get paid for the risk and liability. i really don’t know much about OSV rates. obviously the DP certificate argument weighs heavy on wages in the oil patch, but new hires for on deck 3/m and 2/ms don’t have a dog in that fight.
those unlicensed position salaries are still about $32k above the annual avg USA household income. in my book that’s pretty damn good for 22 or 23 yr old with no prior experience.
Right on, it can be applied to any academy kid (I am one) but it always seemed it the KP’er whos parents were bigshots at a federal agency running his dicklicker like that. No goddamn way should anyone be in the wheelhouse or assistant engineers slot until they have gotten their hands dirty for a little while.
I have seen a few kids jump around tug companies because they didn’t get a shot at steering in the first month or two. What a joke, all the power to them. A god damned AB up here makes 70+ what the hell is wrong with that for a while?
if you were so cool, you would know it’s not free.
the point of my statement has nothing to do with KP, it’s about recent or brand new grads being hired at wages they can’t (and often don’t) possibly appreciate. i recently went to school with a new Maine grad who turned down a mate position (right after graduation) on the largest HOS boats b/c it wasn’t the one that he wanted (where he was able to do cadet time). sickening…
spare me your “free” b.s.; it’s as old as the anti KP rant.
