Avoiding shore side work is how I met this CMA grad. I was applying for jobs that didn’t involve long deep sea hitches and one the companies I applied to sent me to him for orientation/OJT. I had other options and didn’t take that job but learned something in the process.
Maine Maritime has lots of opportunities to train on their launches and has a ship handling lab that uses launches, a crew boat, the schooner Bowdoin, and their tug. There are other classes that can be taken as electives that offer even more time driving the tug as well.
The Bowdoin gets around. I saw it in Lunenburg NS a few summers ago.
It does a few training cruises every summer. The 1,600 ton students do their senior cruise on there (I think they have two of these cruises now because of how many students they have) and there’s an auxiliary sail program cruise most (or all) summers.
As a recent-ish grad from KP sea year is really hit or miss. You’re really not guaranteed to learn much other than surviving at sea for a year because the ships mission is not to teach cadets. Some ships (including an msc ship I was on) don’t even want the cadets on the bridge at all. Instead we did a bunch of repetitive, laborious tasks. I can almost guarantee I would’ve learned more on a TS than I did on there. As for the curriculum, you get one trimester of BRM once a week senior year. Our sim was pretty good, and you get a de-brief after with a couple of captains on things to improve, one of them was an ex-msc captain.
the marine trans dept at KP has a lot of ex-MSC folks. Based on that they prepare you pretty well for being a 3/m at MSC and you’re almost guaranteed cadet time on an MSC ship. If you want to go MSC i think KP is the place but not that many people want to work at MSC.
You are correct oakley23, the atmosphere on some ships towards cadets were less than ideal. (Not only MSC). Son got lucky and had a few ex-Kpr’s on the bridge that gave him stick time. The BRM courses I took there way back when were ok compared to other simulators, but still cartoonish. I hear they are a lot better now. A friend is getting ready to go on a Maersk ship for his first hitch for sea year. My fingers are crossed he gets a good ship/crew.
@SeaEagle, I don’t think that you and I are every going to see eye to eye on this topic, but this right here is exactly what I don’t understand about all the chest thumping regarding the superiority of the Sea Year vs Training Ship model. So much depends on the luck of the draw… get a crappy ship, sucks to be you, hope the PONYs are good. The plan for educating this cadets places so much weight on being lucky. Any plan that depends so heavily on luck is a crappy plan. So how do we ensure that the cadets going through the USMMA get the training that they should in a way that luck is not the main part of the plan?
Well Lois, most do get “Lucky” and learn a few things. As the op asked, how do they get training? As another poster said he wouldn’t expect a green 3rd to handle a ship. I have learned through these posts Cal has a program that prepares boat handlers a bit better than others. I stated earlier,I did not endear myself to KP regarding that part of their training. No chest thumping, KP ain’t perfect, never said that they were… But damn happy for the kids that earn a shot there.
SeaChickenHawk (see, I can mispell your name too 
) I realize that reading comprehension isn’t one of your strong points, so let me restate my question, directed to you, without all of the potentially confusing parts of my previous comment:
How do we ensure that the cadets going through the USMMA get the training that they should in a way that luck is not the main part of the plan? (This applies to deck and engine cadets, btw.)
You seem to be ok with luck. I’m not.
As am I. In fact, part of the reason that I’m so critical of KP is that despite all the talk, indoc, etc drilling it into them that they are the best of the best, we seriously short change their educational opportunity by making luck such a large part of their education (25% of it). I don’t agree with that.
If an engine cadet found him/herself on your vessel, would they be lucky?
The engine cadet that found his way onto my vessel was certainly lucky. When he showed up he didn’t know how to use a pipe wrench or which way to turn an easy-out. If we hadn’t given him the time of day he would have returned from sea year as ignorant as he arrived. I’d say we didn’t even get paid for our teaching services but since he was a KP cadet and I worked for the federal gov’t at the time I guess we did 
But to answer @Louisd75 question, how do we make it less about luck? Hard to say. Perhaps it’s incumbent on the shipping companies that accept cadets to at least have some sort of policy for this. If there is any guidance from MarAd on this I’ve certainly never seen it, but that would be a start.
I liked having cadets as I enjoyed passing on knowledge. That is definitely not the case for everyone. I saw it as an investment even if I was guaranteed no return. My own opportunity to help improve the future workforce that I’d have to hire.
My current vessel? I’d say no. We’re minimally manned on a tight schedule running with an unmanned engine room. We have four officers, a QMED and an electrician. As a result, the cadet ends up with a lot of bitch work that doesn’t really do much to further his/her education (This is your needle gun, there are many like it, but this one is yours…). My last full hitch as 1a/e one of my KP cadets quit. Dropped out of school and everything. Said we were a slave ship. He and I signed on the same day and I was handed a bit of a shit sandwich and we had a lot of catch-up to do to try and get back on top of things. If I have time I do my best to help them. The problem is that my job is not training cadets. My job is getting the ship from one port to the next while trying to keep the ship going. The ship itself is a basket case. Honestly don’t know how much longer I’ll be there for. There is a sense of satisfaction and pride in keeping it running, and I’m learning a tremendous amount in dealing with the constant failures, but at some point I’ll just need something new while I still have hair.
My department doesn’t have time to spoon feed cadets. I do my best to answer well thought out questions, but so many times when I ask what the manual says about their question I just get a blank stare. I’m not out to sabotage anyone. I am out here to do a job and the job is my priority, not someone’s sea project. We’re pushing hard for an additional officer on board. Even an additional QMED would help, but an officer would let us take the 1st out of the duty rotation and let us divide machinery responsibilities across more shoulders. Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening without the USCG revisiting the COI, and they’re not going to do that because then it would be an admission of a mistake on their part.
Lest I come across as a complete curmudgeon, I do enjoy teaching and passing on info. I’ve helped and encouraged many unlicensed engine crew to hawsepipe, helped many green 3a/es cut their teeth and advance. That’s why I ask what we can do to improve the system instead of just jumping on the “shut’er down” bandwagon. How do we ensure that KP cadets get a consistent education and remove luck from the situation?
I have been on vessels that were in horrible shape, and not enough hands to correct it in a timely manner. . I don’t envy you. A cadet may learn a thing or two helping you as directed. Probably learn more on your vessel than one that is in much better condition.
Glad to see there are some that can be reasoned with.
An open mind to teaching, or, at least putting best foot forward, is all that it takes, even if it is “bitch work”. You pick up things just being around and treated with at least the respect that you’re there to learn.
I always look at it this way, no one just inherently knows everything there is to know - someone taught them. If someone doesn’t know something, try to teach them. - I know there are those that “can’t” be taught, or, don’t want to learn, but, I choose to think most people can and do want to learn.
Yes, you’re still left with luck of the draw if they get on ships that don’t want them, but, is that any different then going to any other job totally green?
Even now, even when I get a chance to “teach” previous ex-presidents of hqse departments of big companies in their new jobs (really, was I going to teach this guy something he didn’t already know?) just explaining what I am doing, why I’m doing it, etc, goes a long way.
Well said sir.
luck is certainly a part of it. But does it matter? However much you learned in school or your sea year you have a learning curve as a new 3/m or 3a/e probably. As a new 3/m shiphandling is really the least of your concern anyway. you need collision avoidance, how to use ecdis/radar properly, how to do admin/paperwork, certain maneuvers for drills etc, basics of tanker load/discharge if your on a tanker/atb. if you have those things youre not the worst 3/m out there.
Oakley23, if I were still sailing, would more than welcome you aboard with that mindset. Good luck in your career.
What are you basing your “most do get lucky” opinion on? Your one personal connection to KP getting lucky?
Franky when I got to my ship as a green third, I was far more comfortable maneuvering than I was doing the other every day third mate things Oakley had listed. Basic paperwork, inspections, cargo work, that was all mostly foreign to me. I had a great foundation from school and great captain on my commercial shipping semester that encouraged myself and the other deck cadet to be on the bridge. I can’t say the same about certain classmates.
Are you sure about that? My company has specifically designated the C/M and 1 A/E as “mentors” of the cadets. It literally is my job to make sure my cadets actually learn something.
Positive. Our SMS doesn’t even mention cadets outside of our sexual harassment policy. Interestingly, it was only recently that OWS operations were added to the SMS…