No, only the people who confidently proclaim “it was a cyber attack” are labeled crazy. They’re not conspiracy theorists because there’s no conspiracy, just crazy because that’s what they are.
Then you’re irrational.
No one here is saying it absolutely wasn’t a cyber attack, but that’s very very very very unlikely for a number of reasons so “firmly straddling the middle” is a ridiculous position for anyone to take.
With the caveat “I’m off topic”, there is one thing about the AC into the pentagon I can’t get past. It doesn’t keep me awake at night, but just gives me a “hmmm” moment. And with another caveat, “Seen on Jesse Ventura TV years ago”, here goes: Two experienced 757 pilots, one with 20k hours in left seat, and the other with 10k left seat, flew the flight envelope of AA77 that was provided by the US Government in a 757 simulator. THEY COULD NOT SUCCESSFULLY IMPACT THE PENTAGON. So how could the terrorist with lousy evals in flight school do it? [My conclusion: Since the Tango obviously did it, the flight envelope provided by the Government is suspect.]
But isn’t that how the industry improves?
Take the el faro for example. One of the leading findings of the investigation report was that all lifeboats should have personal epirbs onboard
Now does anyone seriously think the el faro crew would have survived if each lifeboat had an epirb? No. But it was the process of exploring those what ifs that caused it to be included in the investigation report
Now the “this wouldn’t really have helped” crown caused the USCG Commandant to overturn new regulations mandating it so some people believe it was useless but that’s not true
i know of several companies that read that report and took the extra steps of putting personal epirbs of all company lifeboats and I know of cases where those epirbs helped SAR perform rescues
There will be a lot of information in this investigation that’s not directly relevant but regardless of if @johnmills concerns prove to be the cause…. he is an IT security expert and his concerns are worth exploring
I’m not saying we shouldn’t improve our cyber attack awareness and prevention practices, but that still doesn’t mean that this was a cyber attack, that a cyber attack is at all probable, or that the people claiming it was one aren’t loonies (even if they turn out to be correct).
Sure but lets say 99% are loonies. Does that mean we should shove a professional cybersecurity expert with decades of experience and - checks notes - is a decorated Army Colonel - like @johnmills in the same pigeon hole as the loonies?
If he says he’s 50/50 on weather or not it was a cyber attack, yes. (Not a loonie, just irrational and uninformed.)
After looking at the way the US and Isreal mounted a slow burn cyber attack in Iranian industrial controls causing substantial damage to thier nuclear program with the Suxnet attack, I can see why he would be holding the optinion he is. Its not totaly out of the question.
How can it be off topic to show fairly unequivocal evidence that so-called conspiracy theories are actually right very often and that, in this Baltimore case, we should look at the evidence before we call people “irrational” and point and giggle at them?
BTW, I fully concur with your reasons for going ‘hmmm’. It was not a 757. And you are wise to distrust your government (as I do mine).
I’ve posted a video earlier on this thread which a very few have viewed but not a single person has commented on. The implication of that video is horrendous - that the whole Baltimore event was long planned and precisely implemented to produce a desired effect of closing the port and cutting a critical bridge for some very major reason.
I don’t know. But if that is the case (please everyone, I did say "IF) you can be sure the investigation will not produce a totally honest result (eg the Warren Commission, 9/11 Commission) and will deflect the public’s attention in a desired but false direction. If someone has the power and wherewithal to do the deed, they have the means to fool us all with the investigation.
So this might not just be a debate by mariners about a maritime event.
You haven’t.
Like what?
How often are bridges struck by vessels? Pretty often. How often are they knocked out of commission entirely? It happens.So why was this bridge unusual?
It’s not. It’s vital to locals. But it’s not the biggest bridge in the USA, it’s not in the busiest port, or the biggest city. The ship that hit it isn’t the biggest ship. It didn’t carry a special mix of cargo. It has no significance.
To take over control of the vessel would require a unique mix of technology and operatives, a secret program which, if it were in place, would be certain to be discovered by FBI, NTSB etc. Meaning, if you were an evil mastermind you could use this plot just once. If you’re a foreign adversary you would know this act could lead to war.
So, who is going to use this secret sauce of sabotage to take down an average bridge with an average ship, for no notoriety, no financial gain, no strategic advantage, with a high chance of retaliation when discovered, and the disclosure of a tactical technology better hoarded for military conflict?
Pretty lame conspiracy.
I didn’t claim to have. If you understood English, you would have comprehended that I was referring to seasmaster who demonstrated that an aircraft piloted by novices did not hit the Pentagon.
Like read my post again. I didn’t think I’d hidden the evidence so effectively a sleuth such as you would miss it.
There’s no point, there’s no evidence provided in it.
True enough but it is so comforting to me that you believe your authorities are not themselves implicated or at least compromised. That’s the (possible) conspiracy.
Aaaah. Now we come to the real (possible) conspiracy - that won’t be found by subsequent investigations. You may think there’s no possible reason for it, but you don’t know. Nor do I, but I’m increasingly aware that what we are shown isn’t necessarily the truth.
I’m no cyber security expert or an engineer but I think I could think of a number of simple If/Then statments that could cause an inopportune blackouts without the help of seal team six. Look into what that suxnet attack did to industrial control systems, it was so simple and so genius.
Imagine with me:
An infected US based service tech’s computer infecting control equipment causing a blackout when running at less than sea speed, within so many minutes of SBE sounds pretty doable. And my coding skills don’t go far beyond “Hello, world.” That worm infects enough control systems its only a matter of time before something goes very wrong and you disrupt trade.
Maybe it’s Baltimore, maybe its New York, maybe its San Francisco, maybe its Lake Charles we need to get lucky every time, “they” need to get lucky once. Just sell the cheapest flash drive on amazon, and preload the malware on it, and its only a matter of time before it gets to the ships.
Do you seriously believe that’s all more likely than some engineer flipping the wrong switch or closing the wrong valve? If we are just going to imagine stuff why not alien space craft?
Because Occam’s razor.
More likely? No.
Outlanish enough to be ruled out? Also no.
Again, nothing I’m describing is fiction like aliens, the Stuxnet attack actually physicaly damaged thouslands of machines, it targeted centrifuges in Iranian nuclear power plants.
The point is that it doesn’t have to be a highly coordinted military endeavor, someone’s 3 letter agency could implement an attack like this at minimal cost. This is why most of our cyber security policies say dont plug in personal flash drives to company computers. They arent refered to as computer viruses because they make your computer sick, but because of how they spread.
The most visible attacks are certainly ransomeware, but thats not the only attack.
If our new cyber security friend @ColonelRETJohn says Volt Typhoon is a concern, id say its a concern.
The number of scenarios that “can’t be ruled out” is infinite. People that create them benefit in some way but it’s a waste of time, which is a finite resource, to give them any attention which is what they seek.
Well, generally you would systematically rule out things over the course of an investigation. We all get drug tested after a SMI, even the dead, regardless if being on drugs would have impacted a freak accident.
There are a number of things that can be ruled out by armchair experts like ourselves, like aliens, the solar eclipse, and the Havannah syndrome, mercury in retrograde, ect. but there are a number of causes its fair to investigate, like malfunctioning industrial controls.
Wrong one.
The neat part about all this is the next time we bugger something up in the engine room instead of explaining what we did wrong we can just go ‘Fuckin cyber attack yo’