How can I work on american vessels?

Another new vessel built in Norway but heading your way, which should give opportunities for American mariners since she will be partly owned and operated by Edison Chouest Offshore. I don’t know which flag she will be flying, but it is not likely to be American as it is not an American built vessel. (Or could it be??)
Here is a video of the launching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXHDzPQsuYM
And a picture from the yard trials just started this week:

Maybe somewhere to try out the possibility of working on a foreign ship?

The sister ship is under construction in the US, so that will most likely be US flag, I believe?

[QUOTE=ombugge;173152]if the US is selective with what national CoCs they will approve, I imagine that those countries not approved may reciprocate, especially European countries.[/QUOTE]

Most white list countries are selective with which countries they honor, just as Norway is. I’d it bad for Norwegian mariners in any way?

[QUOTE=ombugge;173156]Thanks for that. That answers whether US STCW’10 CoC holders can be employed on ships under NIS register:

It also answer whether Norwegian CoC holders (they are ALL STCW compliant) can serve on US flag ships. They cannot.

Obviously this is a rule that has come into force with the STCW convention, as I have served on US flagged OSVs back in 1970.
I know of several others that did so, at least as late as in the 1980s, when I was rig mover for US owned and operated rigs in West Africa and worked with US flag boats, some of which had Norwegian Mates and Engineers.
Most of the boats had only US Master, the rest an international bunch.

Or are there different rules for OSVs working exclusively outside US waters, as has been implied here earlier?
Can anybody confirm or debunk that once and for all?[/QUOTE]

Yes, you can get a CEC under the NIS register only. I had to go through those hoops in 2009. You have to be sponsored by a Norwegian Company, and you have to attend a Maritime Law course, then attend a medical at a Norwegian Maritime Directorate approved Doctor.

The US is not signatory to all of STCW 95, never has been. A docket number and notice was distributed in the Federal Register, but I do not think it ever got any traction due to cabotage laws.

[QUOTE=ombugge;173161]Another new vessel built in Norway but heading your way, which should give opportunities for American mariners since she will be partly owned and operated by Edison Chouest Offshore. I don’t know which flag she will be flying, but it is not likely to be American as it is not an American built vessel. (Or could it be??)
Here is a video of the launching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXHDzPQsuYM
And a picture from the yard trials just started this week:

Maybe somewhere to try out the possibility of working on a foreign ship?

The sister ship is under construction in the US, so that will most likely be US flag, I believe?[/QUOTE]

I’m sure that vessel will begin life under the NIS register. It will more than likely migrate to Vanuatu at some point to open up other markets for the vessel. Even if you could, but you cannot, but IF you could put an American Flag or her, no owner would do that. These type vessels are attractive in the accommodation vessel market. Under Norwegian or US flag, this would require being classed as a passenger vessel; the owner will just change the flag.

[QUOTE=anchorman;173178]Yes, you can get a CEC under the NIS register only. I had to go through those hoops in 2009. You have to be sponsored by a Norwegian Company, and you have to attend a Maritime Law course, then attend a medical at a Norwegian Maritime Directorate approved Doctor.

The US is not signatory to all of STCW 95, never has been. A docket number and notice was distributed in the Federal Register, but I do not think it ever got any traction due to cabotage laws.

thats not accurate. US is party to STCW 95, and cabotage doesn’t matter with the info you cite. The laws specifically allow foreign operating US flagged OSVs to use foreigners who don’t hold US MMDs. They asked for the info in the federal register because they need to complete the required procedures to recognize foreign STCW certs, but need to focus their efforts to evaluate training and certification of the most often used flag for credentials employed. Because US law allows foreigners to work on US OSVs in foreign ports, the USCG needs to recognize the foreign certs or it would fail to comply with STCW and risk port state control detention. The coast guard is just behind the ball on this requirement.

[QUOTE=Jamesbrown;173181]thats not accurate. US is party to STCW 95, and cabotage doesn’t matter with the info you cite. The laws specifically allow foreign operating US flagged OSVs to use foreigners who don’t hold US MMDs. They asked for the info in the federal register because they need to complete the required procedures to recognize foreign STCW certs, but need to focus their efforts to evaluate training and certification of the most often used flag for credentials employed. Because US law allows foreigners to work on US OSVs in foreign ports, the USCG needs to recognize the foreign certs or it would fail to comply with STCW and risk port state control detention. The coast guard is just behind the ball on this requirement.[/QUOTE]

You may be correct, I have been out of the US the last 4 years or so and not up-to-date as I once was. Can you provide the law and process that specifically allows foreigners to be recognized on a US flag vessel? I would like to catch up.

[QUOTE=anchorman;173182]You may be correct, I have been out of the US the last 4 years or so and not up-to-date as I once was. Can you provide the law and process that specifically allows foreigners to be recognized on a US flag vessel? I would like to catch up.[/QUOTE]

46 USC 8103(b)(3). See 46 CFR 15.720 as well. This is from well over four years ago by the way. As for ‘recognized’ the Coast Guard has not yet provided procedures—which is the dilemma. US Law clearly allows foreign workers, STCW clearly requires recognition to serve.

[QUOTE=anchorman;173179]Even if you could, but you cannot, but IF you could put an American Flag or her, no owner would do that. [/QUOTE]

any foreign built vessel can be US flagged if it passes CFR inspection requirements however it can never have coastwise trade endorsement yet it can work in the GoM without restrictions but just not lift cargo off a dock and take if offshore. That will require a vessel with CWT permissions.

I wish all foreign built vessels working in the GoM were made to reflag to US and there was some traction for this to happen after DEEPWATER HORIZON but it went nowhere. The reason no owners want to reflag to US is one, that they have no incentive to nor does the USCG make them and two, that these owners would be forced then to employ US seamen and with all the waivers they get being foreign flagged are happy as hell to have their cake and get to eat it at the same time.

FUCKING MISERABLE SYSTEM!

[QUOTE=anchorman;173179]I’m sure that vessel will begin life under the NIS register. It will more than likely migrate to Vanuatu at some point to open up other markets for the vessel. Even if you could, but you cannot, but IF you could put an American Flag or her, no owner would do that. These type vessels are attractive in the accommodation vessel market. Under Norwegian or US flag, this would require being classed as a passenger vessel; the owner will just change the flag.[/QUOTE]

She will have SPS Class so any requirement to have passenger vessel certification does not apply.

By the way, are you aware that passenger vessels (I.e. Large Cruise ships with up to 9,000 or more people on board)doesn’t have 100% coverage in lifeboats on either side? NO? Neither were I until the “Oasis” came out and I started to count the life boats, then checked.

Here is the requirement:

Modern passenger ships engaged on international voyages, which are not short must carry partially or totally enclosed lifeboats on each side to accommodate not less than 50% of the total number of persons on board (in other words, the two sides together must equal at least 100%. Some lifeboats can be substituted by liferafts. In addition, inflatable or rigid liferafts to accommodate at least 25% of the total number of persons on board. Sufficient lifeboats and life rafts of such capacity as to accommodate 125% of the total number of people on board.

In practical terms that means 75% (42.5% on either side)in lifeboats,(mostly for Pax) the rest in liferafts.(Hotel staff etc.)

Maybe having Passenger Certificate wouldn’t be such a “bad deal”, seen from the Owners point of view.
Strict Fire safety rules and the need to carry a Doctor is there for offshore accommodation vessels anyhow. (If not stricter for most Flag states and in most area of operation)

Why they would change to Vanuatu register I don’t understand. NIS register is as open for ownership as Vanuatu and usually more “respected” in the market.

I raised this question earlier somewhere, but didn’t get a clear answer; If a foreign vessel (like the Island Venture) is going to set subsea equipment, run in-field pipes and umbilicals etc. can they obtain permission to load the equipment in a US port, then go out to do the job in the GoM quickly and safely, or will the equipment have to be carried to her by US flagged vessel? (Transferring heavy equipment ship-to-ship is time consuming and dangerous)

I wish all foreign built vessels working in the GoM were made to reflag to US and there was some traction for this to happen after DEEPWATER HORIZON but it went nowhere. The reason no owners want to reflag to US is one, that they have no incentive to nor does the USCG make them and two, that these owners would be forced then to employ US seamen and with all the waivers they get being foreign flagged are happy as hell to have their cake and get to eat it at the same time.
FUCKING MISERABLE SYSTEM!

How is this plan going to work if a vessel is coming to do a say, six months job in the GoM, then proceed to Brasil for her next job and on to Angola thereafter? (Fairly normal for the type of vessels we are talking about here)
I am assuming that they will not keep US Crew once outside US jurisdiction, but maybe US flag. (Consequently US Master(s)).

Assuming that the vessel is 100% owned by a foreign entity on arrival, will the Owner be allowed to register under US flag for the duration, or will he be forced to sell to a US company with 75% US ownership?
Outright sale is not likely, unless the vessel is old and paid down, although in today’s market any Owner may be happy to sell even the flagship of the fleet, if the price is right.

Maybe a little realism would be good and an understanding that the Offshore market outside the US is an international one, with free competition for the most parts, although more and more protectionism is sneaking in worldwide. Are they learning from the US maybe?
It is hard to shout loudly about free competition and level playing field, if it is going to be one-sided.
US vessel owning companies have benefited from that for years. (Some still do, but largely without US flag and crew)

[QUOTE=ombugge;173189]I raised this question earlier somewhere, but didn’t get a clear answer; If a foreign vessel (like the Island Venture) is going to set subsea equipment, run in-field pipes and umbilicals etc. can they obtain permission to load the equipment in a US port, then go out to do the job in the GoM quickly and safely, or will the equipment have to be carried to her by US flagged vessel? (Transferring heavy equipment ship-to-ship is time consuming and dangerous)

How is this plan going to work if a vessel is coming to do a say, six months job in the GoM, then proceed to Brasil for her next job and on to Angola thereafter? (Fairly normal for the type of vessels we are talking about here)
I am assuming that they will not keep US Crew once outside US jurisdiction, but maybe US flag. (Consequently US Master(s)).

Assuming that the vessel is 100% owned by a foreign entity on arrival, will the Owner be allowed to register under US flag for the duration, or will he be forced to sell to a US company with 75% US ownership?
Outright sale is not likely, unless the vessel is old and paid down, although in today’s market any Owner may be happy to sell even the flagship of the fleet, if the price is right.

Maybe a little realism would be good and an understanding that the Offshore market outside the US is an international one, with free competition for the most parts, although more and more protectionism is sneaking in worldwide. Are they learning from the US maybe?
It is hard to shout loudly about free competition and level playing field, if it is going to be one-sided.
US vessel owning companies have benefited from that for years. (Some still do, but largely without US flag and crew)[/QUOTE]

If I am not mistaken, most vessels working in Mexico must change to Mexican flag. . . I know that there are some exceptions, though.

In that case they must be have been purchased by Mexican companies, whether outright or through some fancy deals. (Can be done in Mexico)
As far as I know Mexico has gone against the grain by actually opening up their market, not to be dependent on old and obsolete local and US rigs, barges and vessels.

Several Singapore companies has set up joint venture operations in Mexico to take advantage of the opportunities that is opening up there. They have moved different types of vessels and work barges there, but I don’t think they have changed flag. (Some may have put boats into joint ventures as their contribution though)

I loaded a Malaysian owned DLB on a Chinese heavylift vessel here in Singapore last year. They did ONE assignment in Mexico. (Setting a jacket, lifting the topside and run a short pipeline)
When the job was completed, which took 53 days, the barge was loaded back on the same HLV, which had been waiting in Mexico, and transported back to Singapore. I had the honour of offloading it as well.

Here is the DLB on the HLV:


This picture was taken on return. No change of flag, or senior crew as far as I know.

There are presently several Jackups being built for Mexican companies here in Singapore and in China. I have loaded one on a HLV this year and is now getting ready to load 2 rigs simultaneously on one Chinese HLV, probably towards the end of this month. That will be an interesting operation, although it is not the first such transport.

The same company has two more rigs nearing completion, but they will be carrier separately. (Probably to be loaded out early next year)

[QUOTE=Kraken;173104]As a signatory you have to approve all other signatories STCW training, that’s the point of STCW.[/QUOTE]
That may be an excessively narrow reading of paragraph 7 of Regulation I/2 and Regulation I/10 of STCW.

[QUOTE=ombugge;173132]If no US recognition of ANY foreign STCW’10 CoC for service on US flag ships, does that mean that USCG issued STCW’10 CoCs are NOT recognized by any other countries? (These things are usually reciprocal)[/QUOTE]
Agreements can be unilateral. There are many countries recognizing U.S. certificates without reciprocity.

[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;173146]One must have USCG issued credentials to work on almost all US flag vessels. I think there might be provisions note for the USCG to issue a CoE for foreign licenses from certain countries for service on the few vessels where that is acceptable.[/QUOTE]
STCW Regulation I/10 allows serving for up to 3 months without a document issued by the flag of the vessel. The December, 2013 rulemaking for STCW 2010 created authority to recognize certificates from other countries. To date, no guidance or policy has been pubklished and that authority has not been used. See 46 CFR 15.720(e).

[QUOTE=anchorman;173182]You may be correct, I have been out of the US the last 4 years or so and not up-to-date as I once was. Can you provide the law and process that specifically allows foreigners to be recognized on a US flag vessel? I would like to catch up.[/QUOTE]
46 CFR 15.720 and 46 U. S. Code 8103(b)(3).

The Original Poster could go work for Disney Cruises. That’s an American company’s ship leaving from and returning to an American port… Never mind that this “all-American” company has ships operating under a foreign flag. Do they even employ American officers?

Yes but they also employ officers from other countries as well. Several cruise lines do.

[QUOTE=jdcavo;173256]That may be an excessively narrow reading of paragraph 7 of Regulation I/2 and Regulation I/10 of STCW.

Agreements can be unilateral. There are many countries recognizing U.S. certificates without reciprocity.

STCW Regulation I/10 allows serving for up to 3 months without a document issued by the flag of the vessel. The December, 2013 rulemaking for STCW 2010 created authority to recognize certificates from other countries. To date, no guidance or policy has been pubklished and that authority has not been used. See 46 CFR 15.720(e).

46 CFR 15.720 and 46 U. S. Code 8103(b)(3).[/QUOTE]

I looked at NMC’s answeres to FAQ about STCW: http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/stcw/new_STCW_rule_faq.asp
I particularly looked at #9 and #10 and thought the answers ingenious;
#9 Yes foreigners can serve as long as they have certificates recognized by US they may serve for a period not to exceed 3 months while the Coast Guard is processing his or her application for such a certificate.(CoE)

#10/3 At present US does not recognize certificates issued by ANY other Authorities.

Now that should answer any question you may have, except why does it take three months to answer a question where the answer is given in advance?

[QUOTE=ombugge;173322]… why does it take three months to answer a question where the answer is given in advance?[/QUOTE]

Because #10 will no longer apply when and if #9 becomes effective. They won’t need to rewrite the FAQ when the people who own the politicians have sold off the US merchant marine to the highest bidder.

It will take 3 months because the NMC will either no longer exist or it will be outsourced to a “customer service” boiler room in Mumbai or a privatized prison in Kansas.

[QUOTE=Steamer;173331]Because #10 will no longer apply when and if #9 becomes effective. They won’t need to rewrite the FAQ when the people who own the politicians have sold off the US merchant marine to the highest bidder.

It will take 3 months because the NMC will either no longer exist or it will be outsourced to a “customer service” boiler room in Mumbai or a privatized prison in Kansas.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. You are a born optimist though.

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[QUOTE=Fraqrat;173329][/QUOTE]

Those look like card carrying Rednecks.

[QUOTE=ombugge;173358]Those look like card carrying Rednecks.[/QUOTE]

WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU To BE SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT US AMERICANS HERE? I SUGGEST YOU SHUT YOUR EFFING PIEHOLE REAL QUICK LIKE!