Highest paying jobs for fresh 3rd Mates in 2024?

Professional Mariner Forum
61

I mean I get what you’re saying, and I don’t disagree, but if they’ve managed to sell themselves to make comparable pay on shore, and we’re busting our ass 6, 7 ,8 months a year on a ship, who’s really the fool? I’m not one to find identity and value in job titles. If you want to be “Rear Adm. Upper half, Commanding Officer, Second only to God on the Good Barge 257” instead of Lead Tankerman, and that’s what gets you a job, good for them. This is your competition, you’re welcome to do better.

This is actually the observed shelf life for a lot of academy kids. I’m only still here in year 6 because I’m chasing a dream, if that peters out, I’m gone too. Objectively This sucks and I’d rather be shoreside. I fully understand the grass isn’t greener on the other side- rather it’s brown everywhere- But I’m just tired of wearing shoes when I shower, and I’m tired of living in what would be a really shitty studio apartment for half the year. I’m not at the end of the story yet, so I couldn’t tell you if I should have gone into computer science or something, but sometimes it sure feels like it. It wasn’t even the license renewal that knocked people out, I really couldn’t tell you what happens at the 5 year mark.

I’m going to sound like a whiney millennial for a moment and say that our generations have different challenges and expectations around availability. I don’t know what life was like in the 90s, I was in diapers for most of it, but today, If you’re not damn near married when you start sailing, even getting off the ground is next to impossible. Dating apps suck if you have a normal land job, now, overlay that on a rotational sailing schedule and it’s damn near impossible to find a significant other that’s not looking for a green card. Best case scenario, working 21/21, you have three weeks to convince a girl not to ghost you when you disappear for the next three weeks. when people have seemingly infinite choices at their fingertips, you’re going to be forgotten and replaced. In today’s dating world, you can’t hope you’re the only guy a girl is talking to, you have to hope you’re one of the favorites. As the corporate world seems to be shifting away from an actual 9-5 and towards remote or hybrid work, it does lend itself nicely to actually having a life. It’s not impossible, but it would be a hell of a lot easier if I could make it to Applebee’s every Friday.

You’re absolutely right, I work with so many unlimited captains and mates who absolutely have no understanding of how to properly use an ECDIS. There is an active thread talking about how we can get ENCs printed on paper charts to meet carriage requirements for God’s sake, and I know of multiple outfits choosing to carry expired paper charts, essentially because the old timers don’t understand the tools available to them. If a third mate walked on to the bridge and didn’t know how to put a PI line on a paper chart 20 years ago, they should have been fired. But today, when companies ask senior officers to do a simulator exercise they’re “being target” and “forced out of a job” because they fail a sim exercise. The biggest lesson I’ve learned in 6 years is that “Highly Trained American Merchant Mariners” is not our best argument for protecting the Jones Act.

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62

What makes you think that? How are “career second mates” even relevant to the discussion?

If you think an academy grad with 360 days of sea time has the experience required to sail as 1,600 ton master then I question your judgement.

Did you even read anything I wrote? This is so random and out of the blue I hand no idea where you’re coming from.

I do, require more sea time as OICNW before giving them the license.

63

These guys seem too fragile to sail. Dating apps? Girls ghosting you? For God’s sake just stow your angst and go to work. No one gives a shit about you being ‘ghosted’ or you not being able to go to Applebees. Perhaps it is time for people like that to seek another profession. Quit your whining and change your life.

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64

You took this out of a greater context where I asked said:

Yeah, good. That was my point by saying if you hire someone with no, or in your view limited experience, to run your 1,600 ton vessel that’s on you.

I misread your part about a fresh second mate having enough experience, so your right, guys that have been sailing 2nd mate forever are excluded.

I will add though, that after sailing for 365 as a third mate you should be a “competent mate” as you put it. If you’re not, well, sailing 2nd isn’t going to be any easier for you.

This still doesn’t address your initial gripe with the issue, which is that they don’t have experience. Again, interview and select your candidates based on their resume and experience in ADDITION to the ticket they hold. If you hire someone who’s last job was also their first 2M’s job then you’re an idiot.

65

They are, they’re not going to sea. Hence that mariner shortage we had not so long ago.

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66

This is what I’m saying, boss man. This is why we have a 5 year shelf life, It’s kinda cool going to an academy, by the time you’ve sunk 4 years into it and you graduate and realize it’s not actually that cool to work out here. Please let me be clear, when I say I’m busting my ass to stop sailing, I’m busting my ass to stop sailing. I’m taking a $30k-$40k/year pay cut on top of dumping thousands of dollars and hours into this exit plan. I am no longer here to be a C/M or Captain, that is of 0 interest to me at the moment, I’d like to just keep the lights on till the chips fall into place and I can stop sailing. I changed my life 4 years ago, I’m in year 4 of a 10 year plan. I’m sorry you accept these living conditions.

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67

You should be, but not a competent master.

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68

I think most people our age share the same sentiment. I counted on two hands the amount of people still sailing from my graduating class. And most of them are deckies looking for an exit plan.

I think the fact that a lot of my land friends are starting to make close to, or the same amount of money as me while they work from home and I’m away for 6 months makes it feel like I should’ve done something else.

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69

Yeah I’m with Capt Phoenix on this one, after 120 days as AB, 180 limited mate, and 120 3/M unlimited @1.5:1 I was no where near ready to be a master on a 1,600 vessel.

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70

I’m not disagreeing with that, I said like 4 times if you hire a guy who’s only other job has been 2M to be your captain then you’re an idiot.

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71

Yeah the younger generation isn’t like the old ones who just bitch all the time but end up staying in the same job situation their entire life… the young ones just quit and leave. It’s hard to be part of a community when you are never home to establish meaningful connections.

5 years for an academy grad is the norm. I emphasize with them, trying to get a girl and a family life is damn near impossible. When they start nearing 30… ie five years after graduation they make the change.

Wages are just as good if not better on land. If I was a high schooler I wouldn’t choose to go to a maritime academy. There are better cheaper degrees and jobs that pay way more shoreside.

The Maritime Academy dream is sail just enough to make enough money to buy some rental properties then change careers or just sail part time. Going to sea isn’t really a glorifing career, the US maritime industry is all but dead.

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72

Going back to the OP post. If you want to make the most money deepsea in 5 years then your best bet is going sail AMO. Upgrade fast to 2nd Mate and jump on the opportunities to sail over your contract of which there are many right now. Unless you live in LA its going to be a better bet than MMP. However, the advantage sailing MMP and get your book within 5 years (Takes about that much time to get a C book) then you can treat it as a gig job later.
There is a plethora of MMP mates that treat it like a gig job. …It might be annoying to some that they don’t really care or keep up with their maritime skills… but as long as you’re not a retard and can do your job decently you will not get fired.

This is a great way to keep some medical benefits. Many do it just for the medical.

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73

As someone who’s also a millennial and made the switch shoreside to management early on, I agree with almost everything Meme is saying. I make decent money as a shoreside manager at a maritime company, but less than some of my friends that are now at the point of sailing CM. I’ve spoken with people trying to make their exit and they’re not finding good paying opportunities, mostly because their experience has been standing watch, doing cargo, basic maintenance, etc. they don’t have office and management skills, they could build them up, but that will take a few years. Just like it took a few years shoreside to build up the my career to the point I’m at. On the relationship side of it, I married my wife early on and in fact she makes more money than me as a manager at a higher level in a different industry, so cumulatively we’re doing very well. I’m not sure how someone currently sailing in their 20s or someone moving shoreside in their 30s is gonna find a decent girl to start a family with.

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75

Listening to all this sailing sucks and we are only doing it for an exit plan conversation, I think it drives home a point I’ve made earlier.

A lot of the guys working today as mariners, especially the youngsters, are not really sailors, seamen, and mariners.

That’s not who they are. They are not interested in being mariners.They are just opportunists who are only doing the job temporarily for the money while they advance their exit plan.

This is the best maritime job market since Vietnam. The youngsters have never had to live through a bad job market. Why are they crying so much?

Wages need to rise to the point that we regain the purchasing power that we had years ago, and to the point that we are making twice as much as our shoreside peers, like we did years ago.

Listening to all this crying, it’s becoming clearer to me that wages will rise just as soon as these non-mariners leave the industry.

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76

Another advantage of this is that AMO doesn’t have a traditional pension so as long as you stay until you’re vested you get to keep the contributions to your Defined Contribution Plan and Money Purchase Benefit.

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77

Except for this one statement, I think you couldn’t be more wrong. I love being on the water, working on boats and ships, standing watch. It’s why I started down this path and it’s why I still work in this industry. I have a passion for the US Maritime Industry, the US Merchant Marine, and our history(and you better damn believe we need those kind of people in the shoreside corporate and government offices). But like you also said, this certainly isn’t the golden age of American Commercial Seapower. If the wages and opportunities were there, more people would stay sailing longer. When you can get better money and a better life, by going shoreside after a few years, well as someone else said earlier, “who’s the bigger fool?”

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78

You also get this at MEBA PLUS a defined benefit plan benefit.

79

This right here is what it really all boils down to. The shitty parts of our job are inherent and not going away. These shitty parts must be compensated for monetarily or people will choose not to put up with it. This is what you’re seeing now with the mariner shortage. I agree with previous posters that either wages will rise or the push for foreign mariners will begin in earnest.

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80

You only get half of that plus a defined benefit pension, which you don’t get if you leave after 5 years.

81

What are you talking about?