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Just like that poor kid did on the Empress of the North!
So what caused the accident, in the NTSB opinion, if not a good foundation in book learning?
Maybe it’s best not to get the experience after you graduate.
I’m pretty new to the industry, after going to college and working ashore for 20+ years. Sometimes I wish I’d done it – started climbing the pipe I mean – much earlier. Sometimes I even wish I’d gone to a maritime academy. On the other hand … I enjoyed my liberal arts education and still count as friends many of the people I met in college.
I’ve gradually come to the conclusion – one I hope I can convince my sons of – that it’s good to have both a trade and a profession, and it’s even better if they are in fairly disparate industries. Something no one really explained to me when I was 17 is that there are plenty of electricians, plumbers, carpenters (as mentioned previously), etc. – “tradesman” – doing quite well. In some cases, they’re making more money than their “professional” doctor/lawyer/MBA counterparts and probably enjoying life more. I guess I’d put running boats in that category, with the caveat that it’s much tougher to start your own boat company (vs. starting a small business as an electrician, plumber, etc) so you’ll likely be working for someone else most of your career on the water.
I think one of the lessons of the recent Great Recession – and there’s been plenty written on this – is that a college degree is no guarantee of good employment, and in many cases degree holders find that it will take many years to earn enough to justify the tens of thousands of dollars in debt they have accumulated.
It seems to me that a degree is a good thing to have. It seems to me also that a 3rd Mate AGT also is a good thing to have. It does not necessarily follow that they must come concurrently or from the same place.
With regard to experience vs. education … I don’t really see that one route is clearly superior to the other; hawsepipers should apply themselves to book learnin’ – indeed, unless they’re cheating will have to in order to pass the exams; also, someone at the beginning of that journey has less experience than a green academy grad, who nonetheless also has to gain experience. And will have had to hit the books. Seems to me to be the same-same all around.
To the OP: Graduating high school at 17? Apply to the schools of your choice and when accepted ask for deferred admission. Take a year off and work on a boat. Don’t move out of your folks’ place (you’ll only be home a few months of the year anyhow). Save some money. See how you like it and if you think there are enough opportunities for you to advance through the hawsepipe or if you’d prefer to go the academy route. Either way, that year of work on a boat will stand you in good stead on several fronts. That’s the advice I’d give my 17-year-old.
Because a mate who had come up the pipe on his first watch would have done so much better. Green is green.
Beat me to it. That is the truth. And it depends on the individual.
And don’t be afraid to call the senior officer for assistance. My first trip as a “green” academy 3rd A/E I would not hesitate to call the “first” on my duty night (after trying to rectify the problem on my own of course) .
[QUOTE=Traitor Yankee;104872]Because a mate who had come up the pipe on his first watch would have done so much better. Green is green.[/QUOTE]
Don’t ABs stand watch?
The NTSB report disagrees. It cites the fact that the AB was, “superior to the officer on watch in knowledge, experience, and skill” as a cause of the accident. But what do they know?
[QUOTE=Traitor Yankee;104872]Because a mate who had come up the pipe on his first watch would have done so much better. Green is green.[/QUOTE]
Not to sound argumentative, but doesn’t an AB stand watch while going up the pipe?
Funny how he still ran them up on the rocks
The sad part is that is an easy area to navigate. Wide open with one rock in the middle.
To read the bridge recordings you would think it was quite difficult, neither person knew where the hell they were, that’s why they hit the rocks.
[QUOTE=“DeckApe;104891”]
The NTSB report disagrees. It cites the fact that the AB was, “superior to the officer on watch in knowledge, experience, and skill” as a cause of the accident. But what do they know?[/QUOTE]
In my experience that is rare among ABs. Except on a blue water ship an AB doesn’t normally stand a bridge watch so learns nothing about running a boat. Knowing how to chip, paint, clean, and watch TV doesn’t equate to navigating or avoiding collisions.
When I was on tugs my deckhand rode in the wheelhouse with me and learned the river and eventually how to drive the boat but that wasn’t the norm, I just had extra motivated deckhands. Plus, if I was alone I got bored so I asked them to be there…
[QUOTE=cappy208;104824]My two cents. Although I didn’t know him at the time, When I started shipping out in 1980 Another guy I came to know went to college maritime in '80. So four years later I had my tugboat license and I was sailing as Mate and he came to the boat for about six months as AB. So he and I actually started at the same time, but I started to work earlier. I had four years of employment and income where he had four years of payments and debt. The differences is after 24 years he decided to go home and start a carpentry company using his business knowledge and his education from maritime making more money now doing that than he was earning with a Mates job. So the long story is… It all depends on what you want to do with your life with your career. And what type of vessels you want to work on. If you specifically want to sail on ships go to a Maritime Academy. But, If you just want to knock around on tug or the oil field just try it out for a couple years first. That way you will know if you want to spend the money on Maritime Academy for a license.[/QUOTE]
This is why I am strongly considering the Hawsepipe. I really only want to work in the GoM, and if I can do 4 years of paid training instead of paying for 4 years of training, I would opt for the first choice
Go to school. The mud boats are becoming more advanced with each new generation. You will wish you had the class room education in theory for the various systems. Trust me everything has a damn computer attached. In the last 7 years I’ve done more electrical and electronics work than ever before. The boats are getting bigger as well. The unlimited tonnage license will keep your options open for foreign work on subsea, ROV and construction vessels.
Go to school. Work in the gulf while in school for the summer etc. or work there as an OS for a while then go to school.
Only compromise would be the much controversial maine VOT program where you’d work on the kind of boats you want for the summer rather than go on cruises.
[QUOTE=“z-drive;104916”]
Only compromise would be the much controversial maine VOT program where you’d work on the kind of boats you want for the summer rather than go on cruises.[/QUOTE]
I would recommend against that. If you are going to be in school for four years get the bigger license (3M instead of 1600 ton). You can cadet ship on an OSV if that is where you wish to work after you graduate.
[QUOTE=SomalianRoadCorporation;104910]This is why I am strongly considering the Hawsepipe. I really only want to work in the GoM, and if I can do 4 years of paid training instead of paying for 4 years of training, I would opt for the first choice[/QUOTE]
You missed the second to last sentence. Go ship out to TRY it. This is an unusual industry. You can pay about 1500 bucks for the basic stuff needed to go out and try the job BEFORE you commit to an academy. I know several guys who just couldn’t ‘take’ the “away from… (Mom,. home, the GF, friday night pizzas etc etc etc)” thing. So go try it. Someone gave you REALLY good advice on here. If you get accepted ask for a year deferrment. Then go try out working somewhere. You may even figure out whether you want to go engine or deck in that time.
You have to have this notion of ‘paid’ training dispelled. Some companies will pay for your training (at least the good ones) But, You will have to take about 12 to 15 courses all while being employed to get high up the food chain. And this usually means staying at the company for a while. (years)
If you buy a car do you take it for a test drive first? or do you just hop behind the wheel and HOPE it is the ‘one’ for you?
[QUOTE=cappy208;104945]You missed the second to last sentence. Go ship out to TRY it. This is an unusual industry. You can pay about 1500 bucks for the basic stuff needed to go out and try the job BEFORE you commit to an academy. I know several guys who just couldn’t ‘take’ the “away from… (Mom,. home, the GF, friday night pizzas etc etc etc)” thing. So go try it. Someone gave you REALLY good advice on here. If you get accepted ask for a year deferrment. Then go try out working somewhere. You may even figure out whether you want to go engine or deck in that time.
You have to have this notion of ‘paid’ training dispelled. Some companies will pay for your training (at least the good ones) But, You will have to take about 12 to 15 courses all while being employed to get high up the food chain. And this usually means staying at the company for a while. (years)
If you buy a car do you take it for a test drive first? or do you just hop behind the wheel and HOPE it is the ‘one’ for you?[/QUOTE]
PERFECT -
Mein Whatever, I stand in awe of you. Doesn’t mean I buy the next rounds, thank you.
[QUOTE=cappy208;104945]You missed the second to last sentence. Go ship out to TRY it. This is an unusual industry. You can pay about 1500 bucks for the basic stuff needed to go out and try the job BEFORE you commit to an academy. I know several guys who just couldn’t ‘take’ the “away from… (Mom,. home, the GF, friday night pizzas etc etc etc)” thing. So go try it. Someone gave you REALLY good advice on here. If you get accepted ask for a year deferrment. Then go try out working somewhere. You may even figure out whether you want to go engine or deck in that time.
You have to have this notion of ‘paid’ training dispelled. Some companies will pay for your training (at least the good ones) But, You will have to take about 12 to 15 courses all while being employed to get high up the food chain. And this usually means staying at the company for a while. (years)
If you buy a car do you take it for a test drive first? or do you just hop behind the wheel and HOPE it is the ‘one’ for you?[/QUOTE]
What I also mean’t by “paid training” is time at sea, experience. I probably will just go ahead and go to the academy this fall or transfer in this spring. I’ve worked in a southern manufacturing plant for the better part of the last three summers, so the heat and strange people are not foreign to me. And you are right, almost every post on here has been excellent advice, so thanks everybody for the input.
[QUOTE=“cappy208;104945”]
You missed the second to last sentence. Go ship out to TRY it. This is an unusual industry. You can pay about 1500 bucks for the basic stuff needed to go out and try the job BEFORE you commit to an academy. I know several guys who just couldn’t ‘take’ the “away from… (Mom,. home, the GF, friday night pizzas etc etc etc)” thing. So go try it. Someone gave you REALLY good advice on here. If you get accepted ask for a year deferrment. Then go try out working somewhere. You may even figure out whether you want to go engine or deck in that time.
You have to have this notion of ‘paid’ training dispelled. Some companies will pay for your training (at least the good ones) But, You will have to take about 12 to 15 courses all while being employed to get high up the food chain. And this usually means staying at the company for a while. (years)
If you buy a car do you take it for a test drive first? or do you just hop behind the wheel and HOPE it is the ‘one’ for you?[/QUOTE]
Well said Cappy