I’ve got a brilliant idea, test for illegal drugs using anyway legal and if found in violation crush the nutz and said nutz owner’s will to live for being an idiot and putting his shipmate’s lives in jepordy. However, I am just a humble conservative patriot so take me at the grain of salt. But on the other hand, how about us mariners not only looking out for one another, but also holding each other accountable for their actions or lack thereof.
The mate that tested dirty did get fired and the U.S.C.G. was notified.
Now as much as I agree with NOT having to deal with drug use onboard I do have some feeling on Drug Testing.
My Aunt was a Supervisor for a Major Testing Lab in N.J. They had a lab tech that was warned about spilling samples. Well after a couple of months of no more spills my Aunt just happened to be watching this tech when he spilled another sample. Here comes the scary part, rather than just reporting it he opened several other samples and combined them. Nice!!! Remember no matter how careful they are with all of the seals on the bottles, a human is going to open it and then all bets are off.
I argued with every testing company that we ever had, to take two (2) samples at the same time so if you test dirty they can test the second sample and then it is what it is. I do not do drugs but I just have a problem having my life in the hand of some Lab Rat that might be having a bad day when he or she tests my sample.
That is just what worries me also. It is scary that, first, you are having to prove your innocents, and second, there is no room for appeal for one positive test. Even criminals get a chance to appeal. It seems like a violation of our 5 amendment right, but it is what it is. All we can do is stay away from drugs and prey that no mistakes are made, but I assure you mistakes are made.
My question is, has drug testing made a real impact on safety, or have other changes in OSHA regulations made more impact?
[QUOTE=Tugs;85288]The mate that tested dirty did get fired and the U.S.C.G. was notified.
Now as much as I agree with NOT having to deal with drug use onboard I do have some feeling on Drug Testing.
My Aunt was a Supervisor for a Major Testing Lab in N.J. They had a lab tech that was warned about spilling samples. Well after a couple of months of no more spills my Aunt just happened to be watching this tech when he spilled another sample. Here comes the scary part, rather than just reporting it he opened several other samples and combined them. Nice!!! Remember no matter how careful they are with all of the seals on the bottles, a human is going to open it and then all bets are off.
I argued with every testing company that we ever had, to take two (2) samples at the same time so if you test dirty they can test the second sample and then it is what it is. I do not do drugs but I just have a problem having my life in the hand of some Lab Rat that might be having a bad day when he or she tests my sample.[/QUOTE]
My company also tests for the salt content of the water. They found some guys were drinking gallons of water before the test to dilute the amount of urine in the sample. This is a problem in for the guys working on deck here in the gulf during the summer time because they need to drink gallons of water just to stay alive in the heat. Lucky for them it doesn’t get recorded as a negative but the company does send a helicopter out to bring them ashore for a retest!
I see the benefits of the current drug testing programs, but its a discriminatory half measure, and why stop there?
Where is the drug testing for school teachers?
Where is the drug testing for automobile driver’s licenses?
Where is the drug testing for welfare benefits?
If the above groups had to be tested too, the drug problem would be greatly reduced fairly quickly.
You are SO funny!! How about members of Congress
[QUOTE=cappy208;85350]You are SO funny!! How about members of Congress[/QUOTE]
Now that’s the best idea I’ve heard in a long time.
[QUOTE=dpmate;55754]I am new to the forum but have used the advice at great length in the past. I wanted to start this thread to share information on drug testing policies.
I was shocked that my new employer took hair samples as part of my pre-employment physical. I passed but I thought it might be a good idea to start a list of companies that do this sort of testing.
So if you know of a company that takes hair samples as part of employment physicals please reply with the company name.[/QUOTE]
Don’t do drugs and you don’t have to worry about how they test you…Do you want to work or do you want to play?
[QUOTE=stevefoster;85377]Don’t do drugs and you don’t have to worry about how they test you…Do you want to work or do you want to play?[/QUOTE]
If you read this entire thread, the point evolved to even if you Don’t do drugs, a lab error can still torpedo your career. Now THAT"S scary.
I don’t know how common false positives ocurr but there has to be a way to prove innocence. I think hair samples would probably be most reliable method of vindication since the evidence is preserved proportional to the length of your hair.
So here’s my question: Does the USCG now consider hair tests as reliable evidence?
I ask because a few years ago, I had an otherwise good employee that failed a drug test. He swore up and down that he had not used any drugs. I went to see the USCG with him to find what could be done. I suggested that we have hair follicle testing done on the guy (because as I understood it, hair keeps a long term record of what was taken and when). At that time, the USCG did not consider the hair test to be proven reliable and refused to give it any consideration. When I spoke with guy’s wife she admitted that she suspected that the guy might have used drugs. So I dropped him and the entire issue like the hot potato that it had become.
Another concern that I have heard expressed is: a guy could be “poisoned” with drugs put in his food or drinks. There are two basic scenarios where this might arise: problems with a subordinate, co-worker, or girlfriend, etc., or in a night club to facilitate robbery, date rape, or whatever. As far fetched as any of this might sound, it is probably as likely as a lab error.
There ought to be some methodology available for someone who is not a drug user to prove it after failing a pee test. If the hair test, or fat deposits, or whatever, keep a long term record of past drug use, one ought to be able to use them to refute a failed pee test.
I can see already I am going to catch a lot of shit here but here goes anyway… first of all, why is anyone concerned about what anyone chooses to do ON THEIR TIME OFF??? Any residuals from drug use in your HAIR are going to be from the time you were at home (so is most anything that shows up in your piss). If you want to do governmental un-approved drugs at home, on your TIME OFF, it should be YOUR business and NO ONE ELSES! Drug testing, since it was started by forcing it on US military and then on US mariners who have to beg permission from the US government, are a clear violation of our constitutional rights against unreasonable search and seizure. (IF it had been the idea of industry in the FIRST place, that would be a different story, but thats NOT what happened). Am I the ONLY one who gives a damn about that? All I hear is “safety”, yeah, right- that MIGHT be a concern IF they did tests that actually had something to do with measuring your ability to do your job! Since they are only concerned about catching you doing government un-approved drugs which are pretty much only going to show up from what you did AT HOME, they are obviously NOT concerned about your job performance or any safety related concerns, but instead are trying only to own and control you. Insurance will probably cost them less if they can prove you’re government un-approved “drug- free”.
I keep saying they are testing what you do AT HOME because all the drugs you might choose to use go through your system quickly except POT and so you can do coke, speed, meth, or LOTS of other drugs while you are at work, every day, all day long, and they will NOT show up in a piss test unless they show up that day or the next day or at the most 2-3 days. The chances of that are pretty low. Plus, piss tests are the only ones accepted by USCG, hair tests which DO show stuff up longer but still pretty much only pot stays long term, are not used by USCG. SO, again, they are only looking at what you do AT HOME, where its NONE OF THIER BUSINESS!!!
If you are at work, offshore, chances are a HELL of a lot better that your shipmates will see there is something 'off" about you than that a drug test will catch you with enough of anything in your system other than pot- pot stays there for months and has NOTHING to do with job performance! If you smoked a few joints a couple weeks before you went offshore, HOW is that going to affect your job performance??? Simple, it DOES NOT! Again, if companies were really concerned about job performance, they would be measuring THAT and NOT drug use!
I don;t even want to get into the whole point of who in the hell thinks its the governments business to be choosing what a free man can put into his body. Fact is, is is NONE OF THIER BUSINESS! Our government was created to PROTECT OUR RIGHTS, PERIOD!!! The right to choose what to put into your OWN body pre-existed any government in the world! Our congress was lied to and they did NOT do thier job when they railroaded the laws against marijuana into effect in the late 1930’s. Up until then, it was perfectly legal and there were very minimal problems. In fact, ALL drugs were legal here until after 1900 and again, there were very minimal problems, MUCH less problems than we have now. And NO, it was NOT because we have more and better drugs now (which should prove to anyone the complete idiocy of our un-approved “drug war”), but the problems we have now are because of the drug WAR. I’m SO sick and tired of everyone going on and on about how scared they are about people doing drugs, you all are scared about another made up crisis from our government who it seems has turned around completely from thier proper job of PROTECTING our RIGHTs to protecting our FEELINGS! They now spend all thier time and energy trying to scare the hell out of us so they can CONTROL us.
That’s the Jill I loved standing watches with !
[QUOTE=JP;85397]I can see already I am going to catch a lot of shit here but here goes anyway… first of all, why is anyone concerned about what anyone chooses to do ON THEIR TIME OFF??? Any residuals from drug use in your HAIR are going to be from the time you were at home (so is most anything that shows up in your piss). If you want to do governmental un-approved drugs at home, on your TIME OFF, it should be YOUR business and NO ONE ELSES! Drug testing, since it was started by forcing it on US military and then on US mariners who have to beg permission from the US government, are a clear violation of our constitutional rights against unreasonable search and seizure. (IF it had been the idea of industry in the FIRST place, that would be a different story, but thats NOT what happened). Am I the ONLY one who gives a damn about that? All I hear is “safety”, yeah, right- that MIGHT be a concern IF they did tests that actually had something to do with measuring your ability to do your job! Since they are only concerned about catching you doing government un-approved drugs which are pretty much only going to show up from what you did AT HOME, they are obviously NOT concerned about your job performance or any safety related concerns, but instead are trying only to own and control you. Insurance will probably cost them less if they can prove you’re government un-approved “drug- free”.
I keep saying they are testing what you do AT HOME because all the drugs you might choose to use go through your system quickly except POT and so you can do coke, speed, meth, or LOTS of other drugs while you are at work, every day, all day long, and they will NOT show up in a piss test unless they show up that day or the next day or at the most 2-3 days. The chances of that are pretty low. Plus, piss tests are the only ones accepted by USCG, hair tests which DO show stuff up longer but still pretty much only pot stays long term, are not used by USCG. SO, again, they are only looking at what you do AT HOME, where its NONE OF THIER BUSINESS!!!
If you are at work, offshore, chances are a HELL of a lot better that your shipmates will see there is something 'off" about you than that a drug test will catch you with enough of anything in your system other than pot- pot stays there for months and has NOTHING to do with job performance! If you smoked a few joints a couple weeks before you went offshore, HOW is that going to affect your job performance??? Simple, it DOES NOT! Again, if companies were really concerned about job performance, they would be measuring THAT and NOT drug use!
I don;t even want to get into the whole point of who in the hell thinks its the governments business to be choosing what a free man can put into his body. Fact is, is is NONE OF THIER BUSINESS! Our government was created to PROTECT OUR RIGHTS, PERIOD!!! The right to choose what to put into your OWN body pre-existed any government in the world! Our congress was lied to and they did NOT do thier job when they railroaded the laws against marijuana into effect in the late 1930’s. Up until then, it was perfectly legal and there were very minimal problems. In fact, ALL drugs were legal here until after 1900 and again, there were very minimal problems, MUCH less problems than we have now. And NO, it was NOT because we have more and better drugs now (which should prove to anyone the complete idiocy of our un-approved “drug war”), but the problems we have now are because of the drug WAR. I’m SO sick and tired of everyone going on and on about how scared they are about people doing drugs, you all are scared about another made up crisis from our government who it seems has turned around completely from thier proper job of PROTECTING our RIGHTs to protecting our FEELINGS! They now spend all thier time and energy trying to scare the hell out of us so they can CONTROL us.[/QUOTE]
You make a very good point, but that (the failed war on occasional recreational drug use, especially pot) is another whole topic.
[QUOTE=JP;85397]I can see already I am going to catch a lot of shit here but here goes anyway… first of all, why is anyone concerned about what anyone chooses to do ON THEIR TIME OFF??? Any residuals from drug use in your HAIR are going to be from the time you were at home (so is most anything that shows up in your piss). If you want to do governmental un-approved drugs at home, on your TIME OFF, it should be YOUR business and NO ONE ELSES! Drug testing, since it was started by forcing it on US military and then on US mariners who have to beg permission from the US government, are a clear violation of our constitutional rights against unreasonable search and seizure. (IF it had been the idea of industry in the FIRST place, that would be a different story, but thats NOT what happened). Am I the ONLY one who gives a damn about that? All I hear is “safety”, yeah, right- that MIGHT be a concern IF they did tests that actually had something to do with measuring your ability to do your job! Since they are only concerned about catching you doing government un-approved drugs which are pretty much only going to show up from what you did AT HOME, they are obviously NOT concerned about your job performance or any safety related concerns, but instead are trying only to own and control you. Insurance will probably cost them less if they can prove you’re government un-approved “drug- free”.
I keep saying they are testing what you do AT HOME because all the drugs you might choose to use go through your system quickly except POT and so you can do coke, speed, meth, or LOTS of other drugs while you are at work, every day, all day long, and they will NOT show up in a piss test unless they show up that day or the next day or at the most 2-3 days. The chances of that are pretty low. Plus, piss tests are the only ones accepted by USCG, hair tests which DO show stuff up longer but still pretty much only pot stays long term, are not used by USCG. SO, again, they are only looking at what you do AT HOME, where its NONE OF THIER BUSINESS!!!
If you are at work, offshore, chances are a HELL of a lot better that your shipmates will see there is something 'off" about you than that a drug test will catch you with enough of anything in your system other than pot- pot stays there for months and has NOTHING to do with job performance! If you smoked a few joints a couple weeks before you went offshore, HOW is that going to affect your job performance??? Simple, it DOES NOT! Again, if companies were really concerned about job performance, they would be measuring THAT and NOT drug use!
I don;t even want to get into the whole point of who in the hell thinks its the governments business to be choosing what a free man can put into his body. Fact is, is is NONE OF THIER BUSINESS! Our government was created to PROTECT OUR RIGHTS, PERIOD!!! The right to choose what to put into your OWN body pre-existed any government in the world! Our congress was lied to and they did NOT do thier job when they railroaded the laws against marijuana into effect in the late 1930’s. Up until then, it was perfectly legal and there were very minimal problems. In fact, ALL drugs were legal here until after 1900 and again, there were very minimal problems, MUCH less problems than we have now. And NO, it was NOT because we have more and better drugs now (which should prove to anyone the complete idiocy of our un-approved “drug war”), but the problems we have now are because of the drug WAR. I’m SO sick and tired of everyone going on and on about how scared they are about people doing drugs, you all are scared about another made up crisis from our government who it seems has turned around completely from thier proper job of PROTECTING our RIGHTs to protecting our FEELINGS! They now spend all thier time and energy trying to scare the hell out of us so they can CONTROL us.[/QUOTE]
You can’t be serious?? Let me enlighten you. If someone is working on a tanker or any other type of ship, what you do on your personal time IS my business because YOU could be putting MY life and/or the life of others on the ship at risk. if you want to be a pothead or druggie on your personal time…go work a stupid job like walmart. Unbelievable. Druggies are all the same. Immature and lazy. Only want to stay on their high. Try McDonalds and leave the real work to the grown ups who are responsible and not potheads.
I have to say that using almost any drug days or weeks before your hitch starts will not affect your job performance. I honestly think it might be a decision making issue. If you have a laps in judgment and use an illegal drug than you may have poor decision making abilities. Drugs aside poor decision making is common across the board. Do you speed? Do you take financial risk? Drink and drive? Lots of people make poor decisions not just drug users. Druggies are not all the same. Pot heads and crack heads are worlds apart. Pot heads are not all lazy; lots of good people use different drugs. Why do you think pot is such an issue for college kids? Michael Phelps is the obvious example of a successful pot user(I don’t know his history of use, but he did not look like a first time bong user to me). Richard Branson has had wild success in business, and he is an open pot user. Many of the legalization measures for pot are being pushed by some of the most successful wealthy people in America. I say alcohol is the biggest killer. It destroys families, and has caused more car accidents. Heck even a lot of maritime accidents are linked to onboard alcohol use. I am not defending drug abuse. I am saying responsible use is not going to physically hurt you, but It will end your career in the current political climate. I stepped away for the devil weed long ago, and my life has not been any better or worse. Sometime we just have to grow up and make big boy decisions if we want to make big boy money. And that is the best part, I walked away form that, but I am still cursed by tobacco(that is a true fight). I assure you when I retire I will alive the symptoms of old age with a natural product that I can grow myself. I just hope the political climate changes, and I can let my medicine thrive in the sunshine. [QUOTE=UltimateMariner;85414]You can’t be serious?? Let me enlighten you. If someone is working on a tanker or any other type of ship, what you do on your personal time IS my business because YOU could be putting MY life and/or the life of others on the ship at risk. if you want to be a pothead or druggie on your personal time…go work a stupid job like walmart. Unbelievable. Druggies are all the same. Immature and lazy. Only want to stay on their high. Try McDonalds and leave the real work to the grown ups who are responsible and not potheads.[/QUOTE]
Since this is such a hot button issue you all should contact your congressperson and get them to fix this travesty being perpetrated on the US Mariner.
Perhaps you can get them to get the president to enforce the Jones Act, balance the budget and lower taxes too. I am sure congress will be all over these issues.
Good luck on getting this problem solved. I salute you and look forward to not peeing in a cup anymore.
It’s more about character than safety but safety plays an important role. What someone does on their off time MAY say a lot about how they make decisions in their professional life. I honestly don’t think you can argue against that. If you own your own company where you can potentially cause millions or even billions of dollars in ecological and political damages, not to mention the lives at stake, wouldn’t you too feel that ensuring a 100% drug free work force is in your BEST INTEREST? Right? Right… So that being said, asking any company, or government to remove safety measures like hair follicle testing would be insane. Don’t apply for that job. Period. Nobody is forcing you to work there or apply there so YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT BEING VIOLATED. No body cares about protecting your poor little feelings either… so quit your crying and sober up if you want to sail.
As far as I am aware of (1) the USCG only uses and recognizes the urine test for drug testing; and (2) the USCG does NOT use or accept hair follicle testing.
[QUOTE=Pikuptruk;85453]It’s more about character than safety but safety plays an important role. What someone does on their off time MAY say a lot about how they make decisions in their professional life. I honestly don’t think you can argue against that. If you own your own company where you can potentially cause millions or even billions of dollars in ecological and political damages, not to mention the lives at stake, wouldn’t you too feel that ensuring a 100% drug free work force is in your BEST INTEREST? Right? Right… So that being said, asking any company, or government to remove safety measures like hair follicle testing would be insane. Don’t apply for that job. Period. Nobody is forcing you to work there or apply there so YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT BEING VIOLATED. No body cares about protecting your poor little feelings either… so quit your crying and sober up if you want to sail.[/QUOTE]
Right!!!
I have never understood the deal with potheads and heavy drinkers. It’s as if something is missing in their lives and they need an escape from reality that destroys their bodies in the process. People like that don’t seem to have self respect which means they have no respects for those around them. I have been around plenty of potheads and heavy drinkers in my life and it’s just a pathetic state to be in.