Hair Folicle Testing

Scuttlebutt
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[QUOTE=tugsailor;154474]If we going to have drug testing, it should include everyone getting a government check, especially welfare and unemployment checks.[/QUOTE]

Why especially them? There are states where this has been done and the number found positive is very small even though some would like to believe it is the poor and working folks that lost their jobs that cause all the country’s problems. But as long as the President, Senators, Congressmen and the rest the clowns ruining the country agree to be drug tested I see no problem , after all they are drawing a government check. While you’re at it drug test the lobbyists and the people that pay the bribes, drug test the CEOs and the Wall St crooks that the taxpayers bailed out with a trillion dollar government check. I have no use for hypocrites making rules holding the poor and working folks to a higher standard than they adhere to themselves. I think Dante had a special circle of hell for the hypocrites.

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[QUOTE=tengineer1;154482]Why especially them? There are states where this has been done and the number found positive is very small even though some would like to believe it is the poor and working folks that lost their jobs that cause all the country’s problems. But as long as the President, Senators, Congressmen and the rest the clowns ruining the country agree to be drug tested I see no problem , after all they are drawing a government check. While you’re at it drug test the lobbyists and the people that pay the bribes, drug test the CEOs and the Wall St crooks that the taxpayers bailed out with a trillion dollar government check. I have no use for hypocrites making rules holding the poor and working folks to a higher standard than they adhere to themselves. I think Dante had a special circle of hell for the hypocrites.[/QUOTE]

What states have actually drug tested people on unemployment and welfare? I don’t believe it.

If I have to be drug tested to be able to work, then why should not the welfare people who choose not to work and are living off the fruits of my labor?

Work harder, millions on welfare are depending on you.

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[QUOTE=tugsailor;154474]If we going to have drug testing, it should include everyone getting a government check, especially welfare and unemployment checks.[/QUOTE]

Unemploment is not goverment funded.

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[QUOTE=Xavier6162;154539]Unemploment is not goverment funded.[/QUOTE]

Bull- longa. Unemployment is partially funded by employers, and in some states by employees. What an employer has to pay is part of his total employment cost. It reduces what the employer can afford to pay its employees. States and the Federal Government provide billions of taxpayer money to subsidize unemployment, especially long term unemployment.

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[QUOTE=tugsailor;154542]Bull- longa. Unemployment is partially funded by employers, and in some states by employees. What an employer has to pay is part of his total employment cost. It reduces what the employer can afford to pay its employees. States and the Federal Government provide billions of taxpayer money to subsidize unemployment, especially long term unemployment.[/QUOTE]

Nope. Unless you are referring to Federal Extensions (no longer exists), Military Claims or reimbursable accounts for Federal or for State employees, the Federal Government or State governments do not fund Unemployment payments. You must be referring to operational cost for running the Unemployment Insurance (UI) programs. The costs, nationwide, varies from ~3.5 - 4 billion yearly (Check with DOL for exact amount per year). In which case you are still incorrect.

States and the Federal Government do not provide billions of taxpayer money to subsidize unemployment. It would require a change in the current UI Code (Law in effect since 1935).The Federal Government can temporarily add additional funding (National Crisis) via individual tax dollars but would have to go through Senate /Congressional debates, hearings and voting on the matter ending with a Presidential signature (See Federal UI Extensions).

The funding for the UI program is collected from payroll (employer) taxes and not from individual taxes. The federal government collects the tax from employers under the Federal Unemployment Tax Act (FUTA), to finance the administration of state UI programs, which also includes salaries of the UI workers.

The unemployment insurance payments to the unemployed have no accountability operational costs. Except for a very few states that allow employees to contribute to their own unemployment on top of employer contributions, the payment into the UI funds are solely from employers. The government does not subsidize unemployment. Employer’s payment into their UI reserve account is based on a percentage of the employee’s salary up to a certain dollar amount which is dictated in the UI code. The federal tax is equal to 0.6 percent of the first $7,000 paid annually to each employee.

For the funding of UI payments to the unemployed (with is different from the funding of the UI program…i.e. operational costs), a “State” UI tax is levied, but not on a company’s entire payroll but rather on an initial dollar amount, called the taxable wage base, of each employee’s earnings. If I remember correctly, the current minimum taxable wage base that a state can use is $7,000 per employee.

An employer’s tax paid per employee is determined by the taxable wage base and the tax rate. Each employer’s tax rate is determined by its “experience rating,” which in turn is based on the employer’s history of laying off workers who then receive UI benefits. Businesses with higher layoff rates (such as fast food establishments, farming labor employers, construction companies, temp agencies, etc…), face a higher UI tax rate and thereby contribute more to the program that supports these workers than businesses with lower layoff rates.

So………

[QUOTE=Xavier6162;154539] Unemployment is not government funded.[/QUOTE]

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Maybe it has to do with how many people quit, were fired for cause, not eligible for benefits or receive partial benefits as opposed to how many are eligible for full amounts.

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[QUOTE=tugsailor;154495]What states have actually drug tested people on unemployment and welfare? I don’t believe it.

If I have to be drug tested to be able to work, then why should not the welfare people who choose not to work and are living off the fruits of my labor?

Work harder, millions on welfare are depending on you.[/QUOTE]

When people worry about citizens getting unemployment, welfare or food stamps more than the trillions of tax dollars gone to bailout the likes of Golden Sacks and pay billions in bonuses to the ones that destroyed the economy the country has lost its collective soul or mind… My God, the USA is still subsidizing oil companies, allowing companies like Apple to avoid billions of dollars in tax by parking money outside the USA and they made it illegal for Medicare/Medicaid to negotiate for lower drug prices are among many other sins that pale in comparison to welfare cost. Banks caught stealing billions from citizens, laundering drug money, helping hide tax money yet no one goes to jail and you want to drug test people drawing unemployment or welfare? Righteous indignation seems to be misdirected. Of course it has always been easier to demonize the defenseless and it serves as an excellent distraction from the the real theft.

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[QUOTE=tengineer1;154598]When people worry about citizens getting unemployment, welfare or food stamps more than the trillions of tax dollars gone to bailout the likes of Golden Sacks and pay billions in bonuses to the ones that destroyed the economy the country has lost its collective soul or mind… My God, the USA is still subsidizing oil companies, allowing companies like Apple to avoid billions of dollars in tax by parking money outside the USA and they made it illegal for Medicare/Medicaid to negotiate for lower drug prices are among many other sins that pale in comparison to welfare cost. Banks caught stealing billions from citizens, laundering drug money, helping hide tax money yet no one goes to jail and you want to drug test people drawing unemployment or welfare? Righteous indignation seems to be misdirected. Of course it has always been easier to demonize the defenseless and it serves as an excellent distraction from the the real theft.[/QUOTE]

I am outraged by all of the other government sins that you mention, but I am even more outraged that Democrats have trained four generations of welfare recipients to do absolutely nothing, except stick their hands out and complain for more. Liberal Democrats are using our hard earned wages to buy votes with these “entitlement” welfare programs. Entitlements are now more than one third of the Federal budget and growing.

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[QUOTE=tugsailor;154600]I am outraged by all of the other government sins that you mention, but I am even more outraged that Democrats have trained four generations of welfare recipients to do absolutely nothing, except stick their hands out and complain for more. Liberal Democrats are using our hard earned wages to buy votes with these “entitlement” welfare programs. Entitlements are now more than one third of the Federal budget and growing.[/QUOTE]

“Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville

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[QUOTE=lm1883;154589]Good read. What happens when total drawings of the UI exceed deposits / premium payments?Has that ever happened? .[/QUOTE]

I am aware of this happening in California a few years ago when they raised their weekly amount to $450. Keep in mind; Legislative procedures like this one are usually buried on page 30 of your local newspaper. Also keep in mind that California is a very liberal State so their interpretation of Title 22 allows for easier eligibility to funds when other states would disqualify.

Well it was actually a combination of a lot of things (including the fact that California still uses COBOL as a programming language) including economic conditions and an increase in claims file.

This problem lead to Unemployment being paid out of the General Fund. The UI general Fund, not the State General Fund. Unemployment is normally (almost always) paid out of an employer’s reserve account unless that employer can argue to have his reserve account relieved of chargers. Ever wonder whatever happens to years taxes pay by employers with employees that never collect? It goes into this general fund.

Well there was a Senate hearing on the matter. In fact I have still have the CD (Old Format) from that hearing. During the hearings, they were trying to determine whether to raise the employer’s tax rate to rebuild the general fund or to borrow from DOL. Since California is not considered an Employer friendly State (especially in LA County), they decided to risk a politically devastating audit and borrow from DOL. Nothing ever came of it though. They delayed. The funding worked itself out. State revenues increased and the General Fund re-stabilized.

And that was a good thing because the problem with asking DOL for a loan is the justification process. A lot of (FUTA) funding doesn’t go into UI funding programs as required. As an example that state, (California) received $400,000,000 in (IIRC) 2005. Approximately $170,000,000 million went to salaries, $30,000,000 to bills that are not allowed to be paid by State Funds (State Budget) such as utilities and lease payments for building not State owned, and ~$25,000,000 in a discretionary fund for things like overtime, training and travel claims, etc…

That’s roughly $225,000,000. Approximately $175,000,000 went into a Legislative black hole for Senatorial Special programs that no one talks about. But that’s wasn’t the real problem because “ALL” States play funny money with UI program funding. The problem was an Accounting problem. It was trying to explain the disappearance of funding from decades of supposedly accumulating moneys from the UI General Fund. Asking DOL for money would have triggered a Federal Audit and the news would have sent a page 30 article to Headlines…alone with a few resignations…

[QUOTE=lm1883;154589]…. If my bar napkin numbers are right which they most likely are not (just saying) $4billion year would sustain about 250k unemployed. There are 6 million that have been unemployed less than 27 weeks according to the BLS. I liked the post, just looking for some more details.[/QUOTE]

Please do not confused the UI program funding source with the funding source for unemployment payments. Two different tax sources. UI programming source is collected from your employer by the “Federal Government” Federal Unemployment Tax Act (FUTA) and controlled by DOL. This is the source to actually run the program. FUTA funding cannot be used to pay benefits to the unemployed.

State unemployment benefits to the unemployed is collected from your employer by the “State” and deposited into their (the employer’s) reserve account for the unemployed to draw from. Employer taxes collected by the State cannot be used to pay UI bills (salaries, utilities, computer upgrades, equipment, training, travel claims, overtime, etc…)

So if you ever get into an argument (which is very easy to do) with a UI program State Employee, and you just happen to say, “I pay your salary” …which I’m sure they hear a lot of, please keep in mind that although they are State employees, their pay does not come from the State’s Budget. They know it and probably roll their eyes every time they hear it.

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[QUOTE=lm1883;154589]Good read. What happens when total drawings of the UI exceed deposits / premium payments?Has that ever happened? .[/QUOTE]

I just realized I was a little vague and went off on a slight tangent. Your weekly rate and maximum award is based on your earnings during the Base Period. It is possible (often possible) to be awarded maximum benefits with just a few weeks of work.

For example, you could be awarded $11,7000 of benefits over a six month period and all you did was a 3 or 4 month temp job. There is no way your former employer contributed / paid $11,7000 into his reserve account on your behalf. Such an amount, depending on experience rating, could take, as an example, up to four years for someone making $50,000 annually.

For someone who only worked 3-4 months, the employer contribution to your funds would be exhausted after a few payments. The rest would have to come from the General UI Fund.
Shot time employment is the fastest way to cause a general decline. “[QUOTE=lm1883;154589]… total drawings of the UI exceed deposits / premium payments…[/QUOTE]

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[QUOTE=tugsailor;154495]What states have actually drug tested people on unemployment and welfare? I don’t believe it.[/QUOTE]

Florida. …

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[QUOTE=jdcavo;154700]Florida. …[/QUOTE]

Interesting. I think the results would be very different some other states.

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[QUOTE=tugsailor;154701]Interesting. I think the results would be very different some other states.[/QUOTE]

If they can’t find a respectable number of drug users among the people drawing welfare or food stamps in Florida I really don’t know where they could.
I still cannot get over the fact that people have been so brain washed as to think those temporarily out of work or those unable to work are a major drain on the economy when you have things like the F-35 that is up getting around a trillion dollars in cost and doesn’t work properly. KBR has billions unaccounted for that came from tapxpayers. Taxpayers gave and guaranteed trillions of dollars to investment bankers that raped the world economy. None of that seems to matter. First thing we got to do is catch somebody eating food and feeding their kids and smoking a joint their cousin gave them. THAT is the big problem in the USA. Why don’t we drug test everyone getting social security too, grandma and grandpa are constantly in and out of the drug store? Or do we actually just want to drug test or harass certain races or classes of people we perceive to be less than us? The kind of people I want to drug test are the ones making the laws, deciding on war and spending trillions of dollars. Also, drug test the bank CEO’s, you remember the ones too big too fail that crashed the world economy? They are reputed to use a lot of drugs and the damage they are capable of doing is much more than that done some poor person looking for a job or even more than some ship captain running into some object.

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The idea of drug testing is not to “find a respectable number of drug users”. I for one would like to see drug testing implemented in all states and find <1% of welfare recipients failing said test. The purpose of testing should go hand and hand with the classes and schools that most states provide for these folks. It is to ensure they are prepared to enter the work force.

The fact that my tax dollars are not going to someone just so they can buy another ounce of pot or gram of crack is just lagniappe.

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[QUOTE=Number360;154337]Chevron is also carrying the hair test policy. New to the boat? Chevron requires them to be hair tested within a certain time frame. And that is not a downturn policy. That policy has been in effect for about a year now.[/QUOTE]

This is my experience. Started working for Chevron little over 2 years ago and gave a hair sample about 1.5 years ago. Haven’t given one since, peed in the bottle yea. I think this is a Chevron policy more than ECO. Could be wrong but just my experience.

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[QUOTE=tengineer1;154705]
I still cannot get over the fact that people have been so brain washed.[/QUOTE]

We have been brainwashed by experts. It is not to the advantage of the politicians or the power elite to have a population that is aware of where their shrinking wages are going and who is really benefiting from corporate subsidies and defense boondoggles.

It is far better for them to have the little people at each other’s throats than the necks of those with whom the real blame lies. This wholesale drug testing is nothing more than a vehicle to control the population. Every study has shown that so few drug users have been found that it serves no one other than the drug testing companies while completely missing the people who really do hurt people and the economy … the bankers, politicians, and those who craft the myths that set one part of the population against another.

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[QUOTE=Steamer;154760]We have been brainwashed by experts. It is not to the advantage of the politicians or the power elite to have a population that is aware of where their shrinking wages are going and who is really benefiting from corporate subsidies and defense boondoggles.

It is far better for them to have the little people at each other’s throats than the necks of those with whom the real blame lies. This wholesale drug testing is nothing more than a vehicle to control the population. Every study has shown that so few drug users have been found that it serves no one other than the drug testing companies while completely missing the people who really do hurt people and the economy … the bankers, politicians, and those who craft the myths that set one part of the population against another.[/QUOTE]

Very true. I have wondered if that is the reason the people that run the country seem to be against public education funding, especially higher education. The dumber they are the easier they are to control and manipulate. The latest scam is this TPP trade bill the owners of the USA are trying to get passed.They’ll probably pull it off because they are paid off and it will create jobs …in Viet Nam, China, Malaysia etc. It will also mean that corporations make their own laws circumventing national and international law. Anyone for that crap needs multiple pubic hair follicle drug testing AND electro-shock therapy. Meanwhile the average family working in the USA now makes $50,000/yr and appears to be happily headed towards less while everyone is distracted by gays marrying, prohibiting Sharia law [it is already] and other crazy crap this soon to be banana republic’s citizens seem to think are important.
Now…no more ranting from me.