I believe (although JMHO) this is business oriented, justified, and driven. And has been since Lloyds, and regulation started. Not only are the shipping business’ in business to make money, the insurers are too. The more stringent the regulation, the fewer qualify to operate. The trade route from Europe to North America is arguably the largest, .oldest and most heavily travelled commercial route. If course this has been changing over the last 40 years (or so). But, this is where the regulations are derived from.
Tugboat reality show= 23hrs 57min of boring times and 3min of sheer terror.
Hey! another show I can watch and yell at the TV!
Just some initial checking (no, I didn’t read it in depth) shows the USCG & IMO revamped the requirements in 2010.
That’s not quite ancient history
[QUOTE=seadog!;72852]
I’d like to know why WNA, is rated in a class by itself.[/QUOTE]
If this is the question, it is what I was replying to. This is all based upon action, reaction.
To give a modern analogy:
Heck, it took the USCG 40 years to admit that the flotation requirements in Lifejackets was inadequate for the ‘average’ adult. Recall the tourist boat that swamped in Lake George NY. The lifejackets only had a lifting bouyancy of 30 pounds (or so) and a ‘modern adult’ needed around 50 lbs! That took a loss of life, and a huge public embarrassment for the CG to update the buoyancy regs for PFDs. IIRC the old lifejacket requirements viewed an adult as weighing 90 Lbs. I know of almost every passenger carrying vessel that has had their COI reduced since then, to reflect what was a deficiency in the math which reduced the amount of passengers allowed. How long do you think it will take the regulatory agencies to update the ‘dangerousness’ of an Ocean? Never mind to update it, but to just agree on what it should be called!
Getting back to your query, All this stuff is based upon years and years of data, and lawsuits settling lost cargo. It only makes sense that what (until recently) was the most heavily traveled route in the world (the North Atlantic) had the most attention to it. (and the most feared reputation)
You mention that this was updated in 2010. I am sure you can find documentation regarding plimsoll marks, loadlines and such from MUCH earlier than that.
Hows this: the Plimsoll Line or Plimsoll Mark, it was accepted as law by the British Parliament in the Merchant Shipping Act of 1875, primarily at the instigation of Samuel Plimsoll (1824-1898). This law prevented unscrupulous owners from sending out unseaworthy and overloaded, yet heavily insured, vessels (so-called “coffin ships”) that risked the crew’s lives.
A quick google search shows the concept of loadlines started around 2500B.C.
Cappy, your general message is correct but your numbers are off. They did not view adults as 90 lbs but more like 145 lbs, which they upped to somewhere around 165 lbs for an “average” adult for the purpose of maximum capacity. I believe there was more than one incident contributing to this change including a passenger vessel in Baltimore that capsized.
[QUOTE=Wolfesown47th;72823]This show is onboard tugs from Calumet River Fleeting, more commonly known around the Lakes as Selvick. While i’m sure the show would be interesting on some level, it is very staged. While i’m sure we all knew ‘reality’ TV has no basis in reality, this takes it farther than i would have thought… They ran a barge aground just for the show.[/QUOTE]
While you are right that Calumet River Fleeting is one of the companies in the show, I can guarantee you that no one ran a barge aground for the show. I would know… I was there with all these guys all season long. Only one time in 3 months of filming did a barge ran aground… and it was very much NOT staged. The concept of doing that on purpose - even for TV - is ridiculous. The things that happen out on the lakes in fall/winter, even a mild one, are crazy enough on their own.
Why don’t you watch the first episode with a story about barges breaking away in 8-10’ seas and a single deckhand standing on the edge of the bow, at night, throwing a line to catch them and tell me this show is fake.
Just so we all know… where exactly did you get your information?
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;72881]Cappy, your general message is correct but your numbers are off. They did not view adults as 90 lbs but more like 145 lbs, which they upped to somewhere around 165 lbs for an “average” adult for the purpose of maximum capacity. I believe there was more than one incident contributing to this change including a passenger vessel in Baltimore that capsized.[/QUOTE]
the vessel that capsized was on Lake George, NY in 2005 I believe were 20 primarily elderly people died.
if memory serves me, the vessel in Baltimore was another DUKW which went blub.
I’m sure some of it is real. Having seen the mighty ships episode about the Paul Tregurtha, a vessel I worked on at one time, I can see how it is. Take something that happens semi often and hype it up to make it seem worse than it is. The prime example from that show was going thru the rock cut. They do it every week on there, its not that big of a deal.
As far as where I get my info… lets just say the great lakes maritime community is small. Their can’t be more than 2 degrees of seperation between all of us.
[QUOTE=Wolfesown47th;72992]Take something that happens semi often and hype it up to make it seem worse than it is. The prime example from that show was going thru the rock cut. They do it every week on there, its not that big of a deal.
[/QUOTE]
A acquaintance of mine used to live in the house on the W side of the down bound channel at the rock cut. Her comment was that about every other year a vessel wouldn’t make the turn to port correctly… None of them ever made it into her living room, though.
[QUOTE=Wolfesown47th;72992]I’m sure some of it is real. Having seen the mighty ships episode about the Paul Tregurtha, a vessel I worked on at one time, I can see how it is. Take something that happens semi often and hype it up to make it seem worse than it is. The prime example from that show was going thru the rock cut. They do it every week on there, its not that big of a deal.
As far as where I get my info… lets just say the great lakes maritime community is small. Their can’t be more than 2 degrees of seperation between all of us.[/QUOTE]
I agree, once ASC carried the olympic tourch from detroit to cleveland and the news showed the pilot house full of people on look out, and showed them plotting the course on the chart, which doesn’t resemble real life at all. Rock cut once a week and it is routine operations. Yes things can go wrong anywhere, but the most dangerous, don’t think so. unless you are a light house then watch out for ASC boats going by. And yes I have worked up there, 22 years of working on the lakes.
The NS bridges trying to close on every vessel, river barges docked three deep making turns really annoying, OMG going through the Old Pennsy Draw. I guess I have had different experiences, but a bunch of guys calling distances off is not entertainment. But I’m sure we will all check it out anyways, and good for Selvick.
First Class Pilots, REALLY, Some Of The Best Ship Handlers, REALLY, Does Detroit River Light Ring A Bell. Follow the Dotted Lines on The Charts An Youll Be Fine.
[ATTACH]1994[/ATTACH][QUOTE=TUGBOATRICK;73148]First Class Pilots, REALLY, Some Of The Best Ship Handlers, REALLY, Does Detroit River Light Ring A Bell. Follow the Dotted Lines on The Charts An Youll Be Fine.[/QUOTE]
I would agree that these First Class Pilots on those laker’s are some of the finest shiphandlers I have ever seen and I don’t say that lightly as I have seen some damn fine boat/shiphandlers over the course of my career.
For the first time, I sailed on the Lakes a few years ago as the tug I served in at the time was sent to work a contract out of Michigan. My first tour saw us cover 4 of the 5 Lakes from Superior/Duluth to the Cuyahoga and Cleveland.
After docking up the Cuyahoga one morning, I watched as a self unloader (Sam Laud) worked his way upriver past us through Christ knows how many bridges and hairpin turns. I thought that was impressive alone until the next watch I watched as the same ship threaded her way back down river, STERN FIRST IN THE DARK.
That takes big brass ones.
Now, if I can figure out how to attach an image, I will show you the thousand footer “AMERICAN CENTURY” make her landing at the Soo Locks in 35+ knots of wind and no assist boat.
It was a beautiful thing to watch. That is, if you appreciate the art and science of shiphandling.
Looks like what NOT to do on a tugboat!
[QUOTE=tvprod;72899]While you are right that Calumet River Fleeting is one of the companies in the show, I can guarantee you that no one ran a barge aground for the show. I would know… I was there with all these guys all season long. Only one time in 3 months of filming did a barge ran aground… and it was very much NOT staged. The concept of doing that on purpose - even for TV - is ridiculous. The things that happen out on the lakes in fall/winter, even a mild one, are crazy enough on their own.
Why don’t you watch the first episode with a story about barges breaking away in 8-10’ seas and a single deckhand standing on the edge of the bow, at night, throwing a line to catch them and tell me this show is fake.
Just so we all know… where exactly did you get your information?[/QUOTE]
What are they doing out in 8-10 foot seas? Not very intelligent!
I know for a fact the owner of the calumet river fleeting guided the mate to run the barge aground so the cameras could get footage and he could come to the rescue like a superhero. hhhmmmmm. wonder if this was reported to the coast guard. also alot of the big seas they are saying they got caught in they went out in on purpose over load line regulations and restrictions.
I know if i was a captain i wouldnt risk my license for the ego of the owner of a company
I know for a fact that the owner of calumet river fleeting purposely tricked the mate on watch to run aground for footage.my buddy was the mate… they also were not getting caught in big seas but in fact purposely going out against load line and other restrictions on barges for video footage. i know some things were re ennacted after the fact for footage
I know if i was a captain i would not risk my license for the ego of an owner.
will bust them out on more fake things once the show airs…
more to follow
[QUOTE=tvprod;72899]While you are right that Calumet River Fleeting is one of the companies in the show, I can guarantee you that no one ran a barge aground for the show. I would know… I was there with all these guys all season long. Only one time in 3 months of filming did a barge ran aground… and it was very much NOT staged. The concept of doing that on purpose - even for TV - is ridiculous. The things that happen out on the lakes in fall/winter, even a mild one, are crazy enough on their own.
Why don’t you watch the first episode with a story about barges breaking away in 8-10’ seas and a single deckhand standing on the edge of the bow, at night, throwing a line to catch them and tell me this show is fake.
Just so we all know… where exactly did you get your information?[/QUOTE]
HEY TVPROD…The one barge running aground your talking about is the same incident everyone else is. OAK CREAK WISCOUNSIN. If you want me to name off the crew, let me make a phone call
FIRST EPISODE>>>>>.I believe these river barges breaking loose were brought out on lake michigan when weather was turning bad. these river barges have regulations. the route they were on calls for FAIR WEATHER ONLY. Like towbtr72 said, not very intelligent. according to coasties for unmanned river barges on lake michigan they should not have left the harbor. i believe checking weather is one of your pre departure preps… Oh ya it also calls for you to seek the nearest safe harbor. guess common sense would say dont leave.
Glad im still a deckhand and dont have to be forced by dispatch and dirt bag owners who want to risk our lives for a few extra bucks.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;72785]“the great lakes are the most dangerous body of water in the world.”
Anyone else see the commercials for this show?[/QUOTE]
I can comment on the show, but, I have worked on the lakes for a long time. I think the most dangerous part of sailing on the lakes is always being close to shore and very few ports that can be entered in foul weather. Yet at the same time hundreds of miles of fetch.
All those little river ports are a PITA, and full of kayaks, sailboats and guys with 40 foot boats that think they can’t leave the channel.