I was planning to get a national AB rating this coming fall, but now, looking at the possible changes come Jan 1st 2017, it might not hold much value anymore, as I would like to sail on international routes.
Am I correct in this assumption? As far as I read, international voyages, even if they may be US west coast - Hawaii, are where STCW applies, therefore a national rating might be moot.
Looking at STCW AB programs with RFPNW. There are a ton of assessment courses out there, but I am wondering if there are actually any programs where the school might have a contract with vessels to accrue the neccessary sea service on. Mr Cavo had mentioned something like that in one of the threads I found on here from a while ago.
There is a school close to where I am, Maritime Training School in San Diego, they offer AB Seafarer Deck program, but they don’t give a crap about where one gets the sea service. I guess that’s not a problem if one already works on unlimited tonnage (or at least above 500GT) vessels…
[QUOTE=sjöman;183165]There is a school close to where I am, Maritime Training School in San Diego, they offer AB Seafarer Deck program, but they don’t give a crap about where one gets the sea service. [/QUOTE]
Then it is not a [U]program[/U]. To be a program there has to be arrangements for shipboard placement and training. If the training organization does not operate or man the vessels, then they must have agreements with those who do to accept the students and train them. If they just give a class ashore and turn you loose to get your own sea time, it’s not a program. The same applies for RFPNW and RFPEW. Taking a one or two day class ashore, by itself, does not lower the required service from 6 months to 2 months.
In programs, it is not really sea time, there has to be organized, structured training. The “program” you refer to is only approved to do assessments for Able-Seafarer. You have to get sea time on your own, and it’s 18 months, not the 12 months of shipboard training required in a true program.
Precisely, it is not a program, as you had said somewhere else already, but that’s what they call it. They got all weird when I asked if they provided shipboard training. I just mentioned this “program”, because that is the only one I have found relatively near me.
So, let’s say, I already held a national AB rating plus all the necessary endorsements, I can then join an RFPNW program, under which, I have to be placed on a vessel for training for (not less than) 60 days. Correct? I am talking about RFPNW only. But that would mean, I would still have to have the necessary sea time as an AB with RFPNW to then apply for STCW AB Deck. Right, wrong?
Majorly confused now, every single webpage I read gives different information, I suppose for different paths, but the paths are not clear to me.
You need to go to the source to find the correct info. One is the 46 CFR itself (available on-line). The easier and probably clearer way is through the USCG published Navigation and Vessel Inspection Circulars (NVIC). They are posted on the NMC web site. There are two that you need to refer to, NVIC 06-14 which deals with RFPNW and NVIC 14-14 which covers the Able Seafarer - Deck (AS-D). So, two things are required to be eligible for AS-D. First is you need to be a RFPNW qualified and second is you need to be an AB. You have the second. For RFPNW, since you are an AB, you should have at least six months of seagoing service that includes training and experience associated with navigational watchkeeping functions. With those two criteria met, all that you need to get the RFPNW is to complete the tasks and get the assessments signed off by a qualified person (see the NVIC)
Once you are RFPNW endorsed (get ASAP to avoid confusion with the USCG as to when your clock starts for earning time for AS-D), you will need a year and a half of seagoing service in the deck department or 12 months of seagoing service AND completed approved by the NMC training. As with all STCW related endorsements, there are specific assessments that must be completed to actually obtain the AS-D endorsement. They are in NVIC 14-14.
There are a couple of ways for existing ABs to get the AS-D endorsement before January 1, 2017 and they are (from the NVIC):
2. SEA SERVICE AND TRAINING.
a. As specified in 46 CFR 12.603(a), to qualify for an AS-D endorsement a mariner must:
Meet the requirements for an endorsement as a Rating Forming Part of a Navigational Watch (RFPNW). It is not necessary to hold the endorsement for RFPNW, but all training, sea service and/or assessments required for RFPNW must be completed before accruing the sea service for AS-D;
While qualified as RFPNW have either 18 months of seagoing service in the deck department, or 12 months of seagoing service in the deck department with completed approved training;
Meet the standard of competence specified in Table A-II/5 of the STCW Code;
Complete approved training for Proficiency in Survival Craft and Rescue Boats other than Fast
Rescue Boats (PSC) or Proficiency in Survival Craft and Rescue Boats other than Lifeboats or Fast
Rescue Boats (PSC-Limited); and
Have currently valid Basic Training (46 CFR 12.602).
b. Mariners holding a rating endorsement as able seaman before January 1, 2017, will be eligible for this endorsement if they:
Have currently valid Basic Training (46 CFR 12.602).
c. Mariners may qualify for an endorsement as AS-D until January 1, 2017, if they have:
Served as a watchstanding Able Seaman, or as a RFPNW for a period of not less than 12 months within the 60 months prior to application for the endorsement (46 CFR 12.603(b)); and
Currently valid Basic Training (46 CFR 12.602).
d. Mariners who qualify for AS-D under paragraph 2.c above qualify for endorsement as RFPNW.
[QUOTE=sjöman;183211]So, let’s say, I already held a national AB rating plus all the necessary endorsements, I can then join an RFPNW program, under which, I have to be placed on a vessel for training for (not less than) 60 days. Correct? I am talking about RFPNW only. But that would mean, I would still have to have the necessary sea time as an AB with RFPNW to then apply for STCW AB Deck. Right, wrong?
Majorly confused now, every single webpage I read gives different information, I suppose for different paths, but the paths are not clear to me.[/QUOTE]
You might be grandfathered to both Able Seafarer-Deck [U]and[/U] RFPNW.
See NVIC 14-14, in particular look at paragraphs 2.c and 2.d of Enclosure 1:
[I]Mariners may qualify for an endorsement as AS-D until January 1, 2017, if they have:
Served as a watchstanding Able Seaman, or as a RFPNW for a period of not less than 12 months within the 60 months prior to application for the endorsement (46 CFR 12.603(b)); and
Currently valid Basic Training (46 CFR 12.602).
d. [U]Mariners who qualify for AS-D under paragraph 2.c above qualify for endorsement as RFPNW.[/U][/I]
[QUOTE=Decker;183229]You need to go to the source to find the correct info… [/QUOTE]
Thanks for the responses. I unfortunately can’t grandfather in anything.
My biggest question is, how do I actually get the sea time on watch necessary, while NOT holding RFPNW, in order to get RFPNW? To get a job now you need RFPNW. It seems impossible to acquire it short of attending an approved program with shipboard training. Maybe I am just royally confused here…
There is a school close to where I am, Maritime Training School in San Diego, they offer AB Seafarer Deck program, but they don’t give a crap about where one gets the sea service. I guess that’s not a problem if one already works on unlimited tonnage (or at least above 500GT) vessels…[/QUOTE]
See also Training Resources Limited on McCain Blvd in San Diego
[QUOTE=sjöman;183832]That’s actually the one I was talking about. They call it a “program”, but they provide no shipboard training.[/QUOTE]
You might have to ship out as an ordinary standing watch. That might give you the sea time you need? Or, you could try to get hired at the Military Sealift Command as an AB Watch (if you have an unltd AB ticket) or an Ordinary, standing on the helm and as lookout. That will get you unlimited tonnage (oceans) time as a watchstander. That in turn might get you the watchstanding time you need for the RFPNW endorsement. Also, MSC runs thier own RFPNW classes which they will send you to.
All that being said, the smartest guy in the room on this topic is the poster jdcavo.
I have a Ch Engineer Motor and Turbine (no limitations) and all the licensed engineers I know are all getting the Able Seafarer - Engine endorsement added to our licenses just in the event of some other weird STCW Treaty agreement that will suddenly require a licensed officer of Deck or Engine to have the endorsement.
Welcome to the world of being a documented mariner!
[QUOTE=sjöman;183165]I was planning to get a national AB rating this coming fall, but now, looking at the possible changes come Jan 1st 2017, it might not hold much value anymore, as I would like to sail on international routes.
Am I correct in this assumption? As far as I read, international voyages, even if they may be US west coast - Hawaii, are where STCW applies, therefore a national rating might be moot.
Looking at STCW AB programs with RFPNW. There are a ton of assessment courses out there, but I am wondering if there are actually any programs where the school might have a contract with vessels to accrue the neccessary sea service on. Mr Cavo had mentioned something like that in one of the threads I found on here from a while ago.
There is a school close to where I am, Maritime Training School in San Diego, they offer AB Seafarer Deck program, but they don’t give a crap about where one gets the sea service. I guess that’s not a problem if one already works on unlimited tonnage (or at least above 500GT) vessels…[/QUOTE]
Wait. I’m confused. It appears as if you are expecting to attend a class and get an AB endoresment without the sea time and RFPNW with out the the required 120 sea watches after a verified Coast Gurad training school/course.
If I am wrong …then just ingore what I just wrote.
If you are already an AB or expect to become an AB without having obtained the RFPNW, it is true that Training Resourses Unlimited in San Diego does offer the approved course. They will also giving you your Assessments on a Simulator as part of the course. But you are probably on your own with the 120 sea watches. Unless you are aboard a ship that does not dock at a port during a 60 day period, there is no way you can complete those sea watches in 60 days. Not even MSC ships stay out that long.
[QUOTE=Xavier6162;184315]Wait. I’m confused. It appears as if you are expecting to attend a class and get an AB endoresment without the sea time and RFPNW with out the the required 120 sea watches after a verified Coast Gurad training school/course.
If I am wrong …then just ingore what I just wrote.
If you are already an AB or expect to become an AB without having obtained the RFPNW, it is true that Training Resourses Unlimited in San Diego does offer the approved course. They will also giving you your Assessments on a Simulator as part of the course. But you are probably on your own with the 120 sea watches. Unless you are aboard a ship that does not dock at a port during a 60 day period, there is no way you can complete those sea watches in 60 days. Not even MSC ships stay out that long.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I would ignore what you wrote at first, because I am looking for the exact opposite.
I am looking for decent RFPNW [I]programs[/I] - with shipboard training.
Everything I’ve found so far are just courses and assessments, nobody really provides shipboard training.
On a side note, yeah, Training Resources Whatever in San Diego were extremely rude, when I inquired about shipboard training. Yes, they offer STCW Able Seafarer Deck “program”, then tell you to sort out your own sea time and shipboard training. As per Mr Cavo, it can’t be called a program, if the school doesn’t provide shipboard training.
by the way, I repeated those two words over and over, so there is no confusion as to what I am talking about. Seems like I’ve got a lot of folks on here confused
